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Side 2: There are sexist things in gaming, but if we really want to tackle the subject, lets go beyond just what your trying to focus on, (maybe?).
I posted the first answer from my phone, and I wish I could edit it for more what I had intended it to be. That being said, hitting on religion and now trying to rehash a closed thread(s), probably going to lead to this one getting locked or heavily censured, too.
I just wonder how many here are ready to call me a sexist swine, a horrible monster and a rapist waiting to happen (among other things) just for liking the Sorceress design...
...no, I do not see that as an ideal model of how a woman should look like. Outside drawn works, I actually prefer a woman with a smaller set of boobs, though personality is what counts.
Side 2: There are sexist things in gaming, but if we really want to tackle the subject, lets go beyond just what your trying to focus on, (maybe?).
I posted the first answer from my phone, and I wish I could edit it for more what I had intended it to be. That being said, hitting on religion and now trying to rehash a closed thread(s), probably going to lead to this one getting locked or heavily censured, too.
Apply the same logic to solving any large group of problems.
Lets say we were talking about curing disease. That's a pretty broad category (just like improving all human relations is a broad category). Would you tell cancer researchers they're doing it wrong because they aren't tackling ALL other diseases at the same time?
That isn't a strategy, it's a sidestep to avoid actually dealing with the problem. You don't solve big problems with a silver bullet. You find small parts of it and solve those.
Too many people want to claim that no problem exists. There is too much evidence that says they're wrong though.
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Cancer researchers don't go out of their way to convince everyone AIDS isn't a problem and merely suggesting it might be makes you a rape apologist.
More broadly, I think it's incredibly disingenuous to act as if women's gender issues and men's gender issues are entirely separate topics and never the twain shall meet, when the actual question is about gender roles and social expectations and how those infect the legal system and institutional bias...in either direction.
My problem with much of the radical left is the inability to actually debate them. You're not allowed to even question assertions or evidence without being called out as misogynist, racist, etc.
Someone will bring up the gender pay gap, and that women make 77 cents on the dollar for every man. Now, if I bring up that 1) much of that is the gap of executive pay, the top 1% or top .1% of earners which has long been male dominated and is less an overall social issue than an issue of corporate culture (while still being terrible) that 2) women tend to, all things being equal, take less risky jobs and/or jobs where they can perform a social good (teachers for example) 3) full time women without children tend to work less than full time men without children, i.e. 36 vs. 40+ hours a week, it makes me a misogynist (or so I've been told).
There is a gender pay gap, but if you excise the top 5% or so of earners, and normalize for other factors, it's more like a 5-7% gap. I don't see anything wrong with being honest about things; it's clearly something that's still a problem, but if you present it as it actually is it doesn't make front page, it doesn't become a policy priority, etc.
I just wonder how many here are ready to call me a sexist swine, a horrible monster and a rapist waiting to happen (among other things) just for liking the Sorceress design...
...no, I do not see that as an ideal model of how a woman should look like. Outside drawn works, I actually prefer a woman with a smaller set of boobs, though personality is what counts.
No one is discussing what you do or don't like in physical attributes in women. I'm not trying to be rude, but this isn't the point when discussing sexism in games. Like right now, I'm not trying to attack you or anything about you. It is possible to talk about this without requiring you to specifically be in the middle of the topic.
When someone is pointing out a flaw or complaint about Dragon's Crown, they aren't trying to point out flaws or complaints with you, because you and Dragon's Crown are not the same thing. Even if you created Dragon's Crown, you still wouldn't be the same thing.
I just wonder how many here are ready to call me a sexist swine, a horrible monster and a rapist waiting to happen (among other things) just for liking the Sorceress design...
...no, I do not see that as an ideal model of how a woman should look like. Outside drawn works, I actually prefer a woman with a smaller set of boobs, though personality is what counts.
No one is discussing what you do or don't like in physical attributes in women. I'm not trying to be rude, but this isn't the point when discussing sexism in games. Like right now, I'm not trying to attack you or anything about you. It is possible to talk about this without requiring you to specifically be in the middle of the topic.
When someone is pointing out a flaw or complaint about Dragon's Crown, they aren't trying to point out flaws or complaints with you, because you and Dragon's Crown are not the same thing. Even if you created Dragon's Crown, you still wouldn't be the same thing.
And what of the people who say stuff like "only sexist swines can like the Sorceress design", then? Do they NOT attack people for their opinions?
I'm pretty sure throwing accusations at people is related to sexism, considering that victim blaming can happen in certain scenarios where it really shouldn't...
Cancer researchers don't go out of their way to convince everyone AIDS isn't a problem and merely suggesting it might be makes you a rape apologist.
I don't want to have an argument. I'm willing to have a discussion though.
I just wonder how many here are ready to call me a sexist swine, a horrible monster and a rapist waiting to happen (among other things) just for liking the Sorceress design...
...no, I do not see that as an ideal model of how a woman should look like. Outside drawn works, I actually prefer a woman with a smaller set of boobs, though personality is what counts.
No one is discussing what you do or don't like in physical attributes in women. I'm not trying to be rude, but this isn't the point when discussing sexism in games. Like right now, I'm not trying to attack you or anything about you. It is possible to talk about this without requiring you to specifically be in the middle of the topic.
When someone is pointing out a flaw or complaint about Dragon's Crown, they aren't trying to point out flaws or complaints with you, because you and Dragon's Crown are not the same thing. Even if you created Dragon's Crown, you still wouldn't be the same thing.
And what of the people who say stuff like "only sexist swines can like the Sorceress design", then? Do they NOT attack people for their opinions?
I'm pretty sure throwing accusations at people is related to sexism, considering that victim blaming can happen in certain scenarios where it really shouldn't...
I'm not saying those things. Do you want to talk about the things I'm saying?
I wanted to chip in my two cents on the whole Dragon's Crown thing.
So, what have you been saying then? I came here to discuss things, after all.
Cancer researchers don't go out of their way to convince everyone AIDS isn't a problem and merely suggesting it might be makes you a rape apologist.I don't want to have an argument. I'm willing to have a discussion though.
What's the difference?
Is a discussion when I accept all your premises without question, and an argument when I genuinely disagree?
If we're going to have an argument, we should keep it civil.
Really, I'd rather use the term debate. It's far less aggressive.
Cancer researchers don't go out of their way to convince everyone AIDS isn't a problem and merely suggesting it might be makes you a rape apologist.I don't want to have an argument. I'm willing to have a discussion though.What's the difference?
Is a discussion when I accept all your premises without question, and an argument when I genuinely disagree?
Right now the tone in your posts feels openly hostile.
Side 1: There are some sexist things in gaming.
vs
Side 2: ????
No. That's not her argument, that is the evidence she presents. No one can disagree that there are some weird things in games re: gender representation. Her argument, best I can tell, is that it's purposeful misogyny.
She sees female characters being killed off in videogames, ostensibly to add/heighten the emotional impact of the gameplay, and cries "misogyny."
I see the same thing and I think "lazy!" The tropes she complains about in videogames aren't close to being unique to the form. It doesn't excuse them, but me saying that is already conceding that they need to be excused. They're lazy shortcuts in storytelling that bad writers use and it should be stopped...for the sake of our collective intelligence which is insulted every time I see the same thing on CSI or a bad action movie!
Not because the things she points out are somehow causing or aggravating misogyny.
The videogame industry is a very weird and incestuous one anyhow. The creative talent rarely have much actual creative control, and in smaller studios the writer is also the programmer or the sound designer, and gameplay usually comes first.
Whether true or not any longer, the perception is that young men play videogames more than young women or older men, and specifically that young men tend to play mindlessly violent games much more, which has the ring of truth to it.
Luckily, the videogame industry is also one in upheaval at the moment. The big companies are trying to hold onto their marketshare and I genuinely think that making them realize how much of a demographic female gamers are is enough to make them chase the money by way of less lazy gender stereotypes all around.
More Drakes and less Kratos, please!
Right now the tone in your posts feels openly hostile.
I can say nothing to speak to how you feel after reading my pixels.
I'm trying to have a dialogue about a topic and being told, by you, that you aren't even willing to respond. To me, that feels hostile. If you actually want to have a discussion, please show, don't tell.
I'm not shouting, I'm sharing.
Irontruth, Meatrace has always been a bit edgy with his posts. It's something that has to be taken into account when talking to him.
And meatie, I do not mean that as an offense.
I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.
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meatrace,
And the response of some particulaly loud elements of "the gaming community" to that was not any sort of argument as you have made, but rape threats, genderd indults and online stalking/harrassment. Which does kind of suggest there's a problem with mysogeny in "the gaming community".
And it may not be purposeful mysogeny, but it is pretty demeaning to women to be told that their main contribution is to be either "damsel in distress" or eye-candy. And that is a deliberate choice on the part of the games industry, even if they don't intend to demean women, the result is that they do. And pointing this out is, apparently, a capital crime.
@meatrace
Simply put, I've seen you come off as somewhat passive-aggressive with some of your posts.
I am not sure if anyone has called you out on such, but Irontruth called you hostile just a second ago.
But I don't particularly mind it, just like I don't mind Gorbacz's posts like I used to. At least, until certain lines are crossed...
And the response of some particulaly loud elements of "the gaming community" to that was not any sort of argument as you have made, but rape threats, gendered indults and online stalking/harrassment. Which does kind of suggest there's a problem with mysogeny in "the gaming community".
And it may not be purposeful mysogyny, but it is pretty demeaning to women to be told that their main contribution is to be either "damsel in distress" or eye-candy. And that is a deliberate choice on the part of the games industry, even if they don't intend to demean women, the result is that they do. And pointing this out is, apparently, a capital crime.
I think it's less about "all misogyny comes from games" and more of the fact that you can remain in hiding behind anonimity or an avatar of some sort when posting online that allows people to yell these things out loud. I've seen both misogynists and misandrists spouting our their beliefs and harassing people online, but I can't imagine them having the guts to do the same out in the open, without the shield of anonimity to protect them. Also, gendered insults are not exclusively targeted at women, Paul. I'm not saying you claimed that, but I see some slight implications of it.
meatrace,
And the response of some particulaly loud elements of "the gaming community" to that was not any sort of argument as you have made, but rape threats, genderd indults and online stalking/harrassment. Which does kind of suggest there's a problem with mysogeny in "the gaming community".
And it may not be purposeful mysogeny, but it is pretty demeaning to women to be told that their main contribution is to be either "damsel in distress" or eye-candy. And that is a deliberate choice on the part of the games industry, even if they don't intend to demean women, the result is that they do. And pointing this out is, apparently, a capital crime.
Not at all! I've been doing it for decades now.
Decades.But I'd like to point out how every one of the male protagonist characters in these bad shootemup games is an outrageous steroid-fueled douchenozzle with less brains than a mollusk.
As insulting as women must find it to be forced to see female roles be dealt with the way they are, it's no picnic stepping into the shoes of another Unreal engine supersoldier.
Door swings both ways. I just like pointing it out. As long as we're making a laundry list about stuff we'd like to see changed in the games industry...
I don't know who in the gaming community was saying anything different because her youtube has disabled accounts, the penny arcade report on her videos was purposely locked from comments before comments were even allowed, and the thread here on the board was locked.
There absolutely is a problem with misogyny in the gaming community, but I feel it's more with the community than with the games. I also feel that the parts of the community that have been targeted are not ones any developer has hopes of changing: 14 year olds who act real big when given a microphone.
The thing that we tend to forget about the internet jerkwad theorum is that those jerkwads are probably perfectly decent folk who misbehave online because it's an outlet for their own personal frustrations.
I reccomend watching some vids on this channel, to everyone here with the time to do so.
They should shed some light on certain inequality issues that get ignored/overlooked 99% of the times.
Please show me who has claimed that sexism is unique to gaming?
Your first sentence really sounds like a dismissal of the problem. That it's really uncommon and people are just making a fuss over a very small minority of issues. Is that an accurate reading?
How are being lazy and sexism mutually exclusive?
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Gonna throw this out there... as I understand it, feminism suggests that the patriarchy is the cause of a lot of gender-based problems for men as well. You can see it most in cases of hatred of gay/effeminate men or attributes thereof, and it spreads to other things like men showing emotion or communicating their problems, because these are "womanly" things. And a "true man" is never like a woman.
I think that men need better role models, more encouragement to be themselves, and more respect for men who are not some Conan-like "ideal".
I don't think that feminism should take the blame for not pushing more strongly for men's issues any more than the LGBT community should take the blame for not pushing strongly enough for issues that affect heterosexuals (such as the girl who got charged for sex with her girlfriend after turning 18).
I hope that a lot of the people who complain about feminism not solving men's issues actually go out and try and campaign for them, maybe volunteer at a men's shed/shelter/similar organisation for example!
Lazy story writing usually involves tropes related to women (mostly mistreating them), which is what he was saying.
Some add rape to stories for pure shock value, murdering a girlfriend drives someone to revenge, damsel in distress etc...
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I reccomend watching some vids on this channel, to everyone here with the time to do so.
They should shed some light on certain inequality issues that get ignored/overlooked 99% of the times.
no no no no no no
GirlWritesWhat is connected with some pretty god awful men's rights sectors and says some pretty disturbing things. :( Although I don't want to dig up that kind of stuff.
"Men's Rights Activists" (as connected with r/mensrights, A Voice For Men, etc) tend to be incredibly misogynistic and anti-feminist rather than honestly being pro-men's rights, in my experience... it's an unfortunate choice of name, too, because I strongly believe men deserve attention as well.
It's possible to be pro-men without being anti-women/feminism. And it's possible to be pro-women/feminism without being anti-men.
If this patriarchy did exist and found the need to make women out to be inferior to men, why would men ever need to suffer for it?
The idea of the patriarchy is that men are superior (?), therefore logically they would make sure even the lowest man is above women.
Someone presented this question in a video talking about those more extreme feminists, but I fail to remember which one it was on his channel...
@Alice
Really? She hasn't exactly come off as misogynistic to me in the vids I've seen. All I want is gender equality, without favoring either side. Seems that's just impossible, then :/
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it makes me a misogynist (or so I've been told).
Have I called you a misogynist?
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Actually, this post was so egregious it deserves a live dissection:
it doesn't make front page, it doesn't become a policy priority, etc.Women's issues usually don't.
Whereas men's issues literally never do. For precisely the same reasons: our society has trained us to accept that men have more violent deaths, whether on the job or as a soldier in Iraq
You didn't read my post, did you? What I'm saying is that it's the same thing. They have the same root causes and the same types of solutions, so separating the two is not a pardonable offense. Many "mens" issues are women's issues...if you're a woman. Such as women on the front lines in the military. Or the vast unlikelihood of men gaining child custody after a divorce is because our society views women as more nurturing, something modern feminists are fighting against.
I don't see your point. You're saying let's not focus on women's issues unless we focus on men's issues as well.
You're arguing that while women not making as much as men is indeed inconvenient it's because of that darned 1% inflating the male wages, women taking frivolous and unimportant jobs like teaching or nursing, or because they're lazy (and not because they can't get the same hours at work).
Wrong and wrong and wrong again. The pay gap issue is much exaggerated and, while a genuine issue, is distinctly an issue of the toxic nature of American corporate culture and (Anklebiter ought to love this) a CLASS issue. No struggle but the class struggle!
To the rest, I didn't call nursing or teaching frivolous, YOU just did that. Seeing as I'm still entertaining a future in education, it'd be mighty dumb for me to feel that. No, I'm saying those are professions that are undervalued for entirely different reasons than sex or gender, it just so happens that those are fields women dominate.
In my experience, and mind you this is just my experience, but women who work time and are single are often in their late teens or early 20s and still living at home. They don't need 40 hours a week because they're not paying rent. Women routinely live at home longer because, among other things, it's socially acceptable for them to do so whereas if you're a guy in the same age range and don't have your own place you're a loser and undateable.
And basically you think it's no big deal and you don't understand why women get upset when you're dismissive of their problems.
No, I think that there are genuine big deals that face women. The attacks on reproductive rights being the biggest. If I were to make a list of genuine issues holding back the female population from gender parity with males, that would be at the top of the list. Pay discrepency wouldn't be far behind. The size of the t@*% in the new DOA game wouldn't even make the list.
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According to that theory, men suffer because they do not meet the ideal of manliness, as I said. In situations such as...
- Wanting to express emotion,
- Being attracted to other men,
- Wanting to dress in women's clothing,
- Wanting to find role models that are not muscle-bound, strong, powerful, etc.,
- Wanting to do stereotypically womanly things such as nursing or sewing,
- Not wanting to be incredibly domineering and commanding,
- Wanting to feel like they can be the protected, rather than the protector,
- Wanting to be more communicative about their feelings,
- Taking their wife's last name when they get married,
- Wanting to have a close bond with their children/be a house-husband...
... men face discrimination and problems, as I'm sure you'd agree.
Feminist patriarchy postulates that this occurs because these traits are generally associated with women. Women are lower than men, and so a man doing womanly things is belittling himself, and should be ridiculed for it.
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Tony Porter talking about feminism.
That's one of my favorite short videos to try and explain how feminism is also about men's rights.
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No, I think that there are genuine big deals that face women. The attacks on reproductive rights being the biggest. If I were to make a list of genuine issues holding back the female population from gender parity with males, that would be at the top of the list. Pay discrepency wouldn't be far behind. The size of the t#*$ in the new DOA game wouldn't even make the list.
I agree with you that the poor representation of women in video games is far less important than things like reproductive rights, rape and domestic violence statistics, the wage gap, representation in politics, and other such issues is far more important.
Similarly, climate change policy, education policy, and health policy are more important to me than marriage equality in my country.
Luckily, I can multitask, and spruik all of these issues as appropriate! As a gamer, I am much more able to influence the gaming industry by talking about these problems and getting something done. I am not really able to do much about getting my government to fund universities more, or to get a more stringent carbon tax, short of voting for the appropriate members in parliament... but I would not sacrifice the fight for marriage equality while I'm doing so.
Now if only we could get the rich off their greedy backsides and give a hand with the whole climate change thing...
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Gonna throw this out there... as I understand it, feminism suggests that the patriarchy is the cause of a lot of gender-based problems for men as well. You can see it most in cases of hatred of gay/effeminate men or attributes thereof, and it spreads to other things like men showing emotion or communicating their problems, because these are "womanly" things. And a "true man" is never like a woman.
And that's the rub. When folk start thinking about how gender-copping roles, including young men and young women criticizing and behavior-conforming *each other,* is messing everyone up, and creating and sustaining unhealthy behaviors in themselves (and making meaningful connections across genders more and more difficult, as men reinforce each other that 'female' behaviors are somehow signs of inferiority and to be held in contempt, and vice-versa), the problem isn't going to go away.
If the parent recognizes that their male or female child is growing up emotionally stunted and crippled by peer pressure to hold opposite gender behavior (both in peers of their own gender *and in members of the opposite gender*) in some sort of contempt as 'wrong' or 'weak' or 'stupid,' so that all men and women are reduced to contemptible caricatures like Homer Simpson or Paris Hilton, then perhaps we'll start turning the corner and being a bit more accepting of behavior being behavior, and not necessarily 'male' or 'female' or 'wrong' or 'gender-appropriate.'
Much of that reinforcement comes from peers, 'though, during childhood and teenage years when people are insecure, and one sure-fired way to cement one's own membership in the pack is to pick on those who aren't fitting in to whatever behavior standards are in vogue. As long as people are insecure (and it's a self-perpetuating situation, as they pick on others and maintain the same atmosphere of insecurity that is driving them), people will continue to negatively reinforce each other into 'acting right' and 'dressing right' and 'thinking right.'
And then there's books like 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' which serve to perpetuate the notion that men and women think and feel so differently that they might as well be alien species, which only gives frustrated couples excuses for why they can't learn to communicate with each other, and end up spending time apart with their same-sex friends b&++!ing about how their spouse doesn't understand them.
It's particularly irksome among gaming friends, when someone who can spend hours getting up to his hips in the psychology / sociology of an elf (Jedi, whatever) can then complain to me that his girlfriend is somehow incomprehensible.
Please show me who has claimed that sexism is unique to gaming?
Your first sentence really sounds like a dismissal of the problem. That it's really uncommon and people are just making a fuss over a very small minority of issues. Is that an accurate reading?
How are being lazy and sexism mutually exclusive?
That is not an accurate reading.
Am I really this obscure in what I'm writing? *boggle*
My point is more that it's systemic to the entertainment industry, and that attacking videogames specifically absolutely misses the point, not to mention being (for numerous reasons) especially resistant to change due to social pressure.
It's also that, at least in my circle, it is less common because no one plays the s@!%ty obscure games she cites, which are the more egregious examples.
I am, however, saying that laziness and misogyny is exclusive. Saying something is misogynist is not just saying it's sexist--it's saying that women are specifically targeted for hateful acts or speech. It denotes intent. I don't think, at least in the vast majority of the cases she cites, that the sexism is intentional at all; it's the product of laziness and bad writing.
Specifically, many of the scenes or games she cites are ones in which the main character must kill the heroin/damsel for some contrived reason, or where she is killed to demonstrate the hero's powerlessness and to motivate him. Those scenarios aren't rife with malice towards womankind, shouting "take that!" by the player, they're simply clueless and lame.
In short, calling it misogyny is disingenuous and only dilutes claims of genuine misogyny in media. I think her videos do a good job in pointing out problems with female roles in videogames, but she overreaches on claiming intent on the part of the developers or assuming a certain type of receptiveness by the audience.
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For the record, it's past 5AM where I am, so if my grammar is garbled and you can't quite grok what I'm saying, forgive me. And if there's two ways of taking something I said, and one of them pisses you off, I meant the other one, surely.
Talk to everyone lazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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I reccomend watching some vids on this channel, to everyone here with the time to do so.
They should shed some light on certain inequality issues that get ignored/overlooked 99% of the times.
Thanks. Sounds interesting so far. Certainly worth a look.
Wasn't there this really nice person once upon a time here that went around offering (digital) cookies and hugs around these parts?
I've done that sometimes (though not on these boards)...
...but it's not because I like people or anything of that sort! *Tsundere*
( Would this go into self-parody, considering I've been called effeminate occasionally, and have been mistaken for a woman like 5 times online? )
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no no no no no no
???
It's possible to be pro-men without being anti-women/feminism. And it's possible to be pro-women/feminism without being anti-men.
I don't think everyone really links being pro/anti-women with being pro/anti-feminism. There is a big difference between the two.
Or pro/anti-men for that matter.
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Wrong and wrong and wrong again. The pay gap issue is much exaggerated and, while a genuine issue, is distinctly an issue of the toxic nature of American corporate culture and (Anklebiter ought to love this) a CLASS issue. No struggle but the class struggle!
It is, of course, the Marxist position that class oppression, from the moment we graduated from hunter-gatherer bands to building ziggurats and worshipping god-kinds, has always fallen on women the hardest.
In my experience, and mind you this is just my experience, but women who work time and are single are often in their late teens or early 20s and still living at home. They don't need 40 hours a week because they're not paying rent. Women routinely live at home longer because, among other things, it's socially acceptable for them to do so whereas if you're a guy in the same age range and don't have your own place you're a loser and undateable.
You need more Italians in Wisconsin. We're allowed to live with our mothers until marriage. (Sometimes even after that if my extended family is any indication.)
My point is more that it's systemic to the entertainment industry, and that attacking videogames specifically absolutely misses the point, not to mention being (for numerous reasons) especially resistant to change due to social pressure.
I really want to address this one, because it really, really bugs me.
1) She has videos on movies, books and children's games. She isn't just 'targeting video games'.
2) That isn't a reason to NOT talk about video games, just because it exists in other places. I care about in video games because I enjoy video games, but I would also like the culture surrounding them to be more inclusive to people.
I'm sorry we aren't trying to solve the whole worlds problems with every breath, but that isn't a reasonable expectation. Stop saying it isn't worthy of being talked about, because it is affecting people and they should be allowed to talk about it.
Edit: I think most of what happens is unintentional and people don't realize they're doing it. Here's a gaming commentator talking about how he used to be an ignorant sexist, but hopes he's learning and doing better.
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@ guy In the wage disparity gap, the issue I that certain groups purposefully presented faulty info, comparing full-time women to full-time men, and then also part-time women to part-time men, which side by side appears to show that men make more money in the exact same job/circumstance.
However, the kicker is that if you actually compare men and women and also do take into account that the average full time hours for a man is 50+/week, while it is 36(ish) for women (usually by choice), that men also tend to accept more dangerous jobs where women tend to refuse them, men also tend to be forced to accept jobs that require more travelling or include aspects that they do not like, but will do them anyway, and also take into account that men generally take much less time off/away from work (both for personal time and health care, but also are more likely o work through lunch if asked), we actually find that the pay gap is non-existent.
It's really only if you look at it from a very skewed way can you find the that show woman are underpaid, and the fact is, they are not, with some more realistic numbers indicated that women might even be at 1% over men, when all thing are taken into account.
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The other aspect of the wage gap is that women do most of the house work, even in households where both have a full time job. Women average 11 hours more housework per week, not including child care, for which they usually shoulder the majority burden as well.