Tip for Underfoot Adept / Manuever master in low magic

[oddmage]

As I stated in one of my previous post I am starting a low magic campaign and decided to go with a halfling monk with underfoot adept and manuever master (I know technically they aren't allowed but the DM allowed it since mm just adds feats).

We did a 20 point buy and I did my stats thusly:
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 11
Int 10
Wis 16
Cha 9

I took weapon finesse as my 1st level feat. Any tips on how to go? I was thinking mostly going with combat maneuver stuff that doesn't depend on size and picking up Improved Trip and 6 and probably agile manuevers along the way (level 3 maybe?).

I don't need to think much beyond 8th level since it's going to take along time to get there. I also don't expect to pick up any magic items so those suggestions won't help (even though I really want an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists).

[Chris P. Bacon]

Talk to your GM about his/her interpretation of Weapon Finesse as it applies to combat maneuvers. I think some have ruled (perhaps officially I'm unclear) that making a combat maneuver with a finessable weapon with weapon finesse gives you not only the weapon's enhancement bonus to your CMB, but lets you use your dexterity in place of your strength. This would obviate the need for Agile Maneuvers, at least as far as trip is concerned.

However, I kind of suggest taking it anyway, if you can fit it in, as it's a prerequisite for Under and Over, which I find is pretty excellent on an underfoot adept. It's even tempting to put some of your favored enemy bonus points into the alternate bonus halflings get, which gives you a +1/level bonus to your Grapple CMD, but I guess you wouldn't be able to benefit from the 1/2 bonus to stunning fist attempts, since you won't have stunning fist. Hmm.

[oddmage]

Mr Bacon. Thanks for the reply. It looks like it was officially errata'd that Weapon Finesse works for disarm, sunder, and trip since they use weapons.

The Under and Over seems interesting, though I'm not sure how often it will come up, how often to guys grapple at higher level?

[MacGurcules]

I've got a very similar character and it's loads of fun. The imagery alone is totally worth it.

With your stats, if you can't expect to get an Agile AoMF, I wouldn't even bother with Weapon Finesse for a while. Any actual attacks you land probably won't deal damage worth doing. It'll usually be better to swap them out for trips and disarms until you start stacking up AoO sources. The clarification for weapon finesse does allow for other maneuvers to take advantage of Weapon Finesse as well, as long as they use a finessable weapon. You may be able to talk your GM into letting you use Finesse for grapple if you use a dan bong, but you'll need exotic proficiency or a level of Unarmed fighter in there. (As an aside, I personally think Agile Maneuvers is a crock of bull feat and just roll its effects into Weapon Finesse for my games.)

As Underfoot Adept, you can get around the size restrictions on trip, but there are still plenty of critters that it won't work on. So pick up some proficiency in at least one other type of maneuver. Grapple and Dirty Trick are both good choices, since they can still apply some good penalties and they'll work on most anything.

Grappling and trip work particularly well together since the AC penalty from prone makes baddies easier to grab and the attack penalty makes it harder for them to get away. Plus, it can give you some pretty awesome combos with Binding Throw. A single trip can turn into a free reposition and a swift-action grapple attempt. With a Flurry of Maneuvers, you could have someone pinned and prone in a single round at level five.

Regarding Under and Over, I'm not really convinced. Might as well take Improved Grapple instead, even if you're not planning on doing much with it. With that and Maneuver Defense, you can take an AoO to trip against anyone grappling you anyway and you get to do it before their attack.

[oddmage]

Thanks for the in MacGurcules.

Are there any other feats that work well or are fun with maneuvers (I like the idea of Under and Over)?

[MacGurcules]

There are a bunch of tricky ways to get bonus attacks along with maneuvers. A lot of them stack with one another, too. Not a bad way to offset the otherwise crummy damage your regular attacks might do.

Greater Trip and Vicious Stomp are the two most popular examples. Those, together with Combat Reflexes, let you turn one trip into two attacks. If you don't mind pulling in non-PRD sources, you can take Enhanced Ki Throw and spend a point of Ki for another attack worth of damage. One of the options for Ki Diversity has a similar effect. Another good feat for trips in general is Fury's Fall. Though, its usefulness depends on whether your GM lets you combine it with Weapon Finesse/Agile Maneuvers.

So if you want to blow a bunch of feats and a couple of points of Ki, you can move a guy into a different square, lay him out on his back side, and drop four attacks worth of damage on him without even using a full-attack.

Again, though, I advise caution when focusing too much on trip. I rather enjoy grappling if only because I like the image of a halfling diving onto the back of some giant monster and scrambling all over it, bending it to his will by tugging on nose hairs and whatnot. You can do some good stuff there, too. An item to look out for might be the Anaconda's Coils (maybe not an option for a low-magic setting). It's a belt that gives you constrict, so you get a free attack worth of damage each time you make a grapple check. That should also help you qualify for the feat Final Embrace, which will bump up your constrict damage to your Unarmed Strike dice and give you the Grab ability. Grab might not be too useful on account of size, but it's still worth +4 to Grapple otherwise. Also, it's feat intensive, but Pinning Knockout doubles the damage you do in grapple if you use non-lethal.

With Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler and/or Flurry of Maneuvers potentially giving you three to four grapple attempts per turn, you can really pile on the attacks that way. If you do go down the grappling path, it might be worth taking the Halfling monk favored class bonus to grapple CMD. You lose out on the extra Stunning Fist attempts because of Underfoot Adept, but the handful of extra points for grapple defense can really help prevent your opponents from getting away.