Alright, so, I've been planning out a character very reliant on dexterity and intelligence, with a crossbow as their main weapon... Eventually, this character is going to have rapid reload, crossbow mastery, and multiple different bonuses for his ranged combat style. I've been trying to plan out ways at later levels to add a little punch, and eliminate a few weaknesses...
Then I thought: Hey... Launching Crossbow. Dip a single level in Alchemist, get "Throw Anything" for the bonus int modifier... essentially gain the ability to use splash weapons in a full attack, with all the benefits of using a crossbow And using splash weapons. Right?
...Well, it seems a bit sketchy to me. So I'd like to ask a few questions to the community here, see if the motion passes according to the Rules as Written, and general consensus.
So:
1) Does using a Launching Crossbow apply bonuses (enhancement bonuses, and any granted from feats or class features relevant to crossbows) to the splash weapon as a typical crossbow would to a bolt?
3) If so, does it affect the actual splash damage of the splash weapon?
4) Is it still a ranged attack against touch AC?
3) Does it *Also* count as using a splash weapon for the purpose of the Alchemist's "Throw Anything" ability, thus applying a +int modifier?
Any input to help clear this up would be appreciated!
*shrugs* If you can do it with firearms...
Hmmm... alright. I would agree with that speculation. Still, a little sad to realize you're probably right about the damage rolls. I would love to hear any argument that would suggest differently.
1) Does using a Launching Crossbow apply bonuses (enhancement bonuses, and any granted from feats or class features relevant to crossbows) to the splash weapon as a typical crossbow would to a bolt?
It would apply it's bonus to hit, but not to damage. The Launching Crossbow technically does no damage, so there's nothing to enhance.
3) If so, does it affect the actual splash damage of the splash weapon?
No. Also, aren't you missing 2?
4) Is it still a ranged attack against touch AC?
Yep. The splash weapon rules are still what you're following.
3) Does it *Also* count as using a splash weapon for the purpose of the Alchemist's "Throw Anything" ability, thus applying a +int modifier?
Yes, the Alchemist would add Int to the damage of the splash weapon, since it's what is dealing the damage. And is that a second #2?
Just note that you can't actually select the Launching Crossbow with Rapid Reload, so you basically have to wait for Crossbow Mastery to get any benefits applied to it.
Ahem.... ^_^;; Right, yes, I had copied the questions from elsewhere in discussions with multiple friends, and basically lost track of the numbers. Anyways...
Two points...
...Well damn. Firstly, Doesn't a ranged magic weapon with an enhancement bonus, or other properties, apply those to their ammunition? A splash weapon does (typically) deal damage, and is essentially the ammunition of a Launching Crossbow, so why would it not benefit from such bonuses?
The second is a little tough to argue: Many (if not most or all) feats and class features add bonuses to "Weapon damage rolls", and I honestly don't know if a splash weapon, Although a weapon, would be eligible for that. If Anyone has something to quote suggesting that rolling damage from an alchemical weapon doesn't count as a "weapon damage roll", I'd love to see that...
...Well damn. Firstly, Doesn't a ranged magic weapon with an enhancement bonus, or other properties, apply those to their ammunition? A splash weapon does (typically) deal damage, and is essentially the ammunition of a Launching Crossbow, so why would it not benefit from such bonuses?
No, that's the tricky thing. The ammunition doesn't determine the damage, the weapon firing it does. A longbow and shortbow fire the same arrows but deal different damages. All other projectile weapons list the damage of the attack with the weapon entry, not the ammo entry.
The second is a little tough to argue: Many (if not most or all) feats and class features add bonuses to "Weapon damage rolls", and I honestly don't know if a splash weapon, Although a weapon, would be eligible for that.
Splash weapon damage bonuses would apply. Crossbow damage bonuses would not.
So, for example, Inspire Courage would add damage. Weapon Specialization: Launching Crossbow would do nothing (but Weapon Specialization in Acid Flask--if such a specialization existed--would apply).
The trick is that the Crossbow is not dealing the damage, the splash weapon you loaded is. The Crossbow is aiming and using it's range increment and all, sure, but it's not actually dealing damage.
No, that's the tricky thing. The ammunition doesn't determine the damage, the weapon firing it does. A longbow and shortbow fire the same arrows but deal different damages. All other projectile weapons list the damage of the attack with the weapon entry, not the ammo entry.
Splash weapon damage bonuses would apply. Crossbow damage bonuses would not.
So, for example, Inspire Courage would add damage. Weapon Specialization: Launching Crossbow would do nothing (but Weapon Specialization in Acid Flask--if such a specialization existed--would apply).
The trick is that the Crossbow is not dealing the damage, the splash weapon you loaded is. The Crossbow is aiming and using it's range increment and all, sure, but it's not actually dealing damage.
...I'm a little iffy about this, but sadly, don't have much to quote right in front of me. Obviously, some forms of ammunition can and will affect the damage. I see splash weapons no different. But more importantly, I'm interpreting that all enhancement bonuses granted by a magic weapon are granted to its bolts, arrows, or other ammunition when firing. And though I understand your point, your last paragraph may need to be refined; A bow doesn't deal the damage either! The arrow does. (Unless you're literally whacking someone over the head with a bow. )
Mainly, what's going through my head is that, Logically, an enhancement bonus from ammunition and a projectile weapon can't exceed a cap because the projectile weapon imbues each and every bit temporarily, when firing... There are hints, like in one of the Arcane Archer's class features ("The bonuses granted by a magic bow apply as normal to arrows that have been enhanced with this ability.")... But I have nothing in front of me that clearly states 'Enhancement bonuses from a magic projectile weapon are placed on its ammunition when fired'.
Basically, at this point my only counterpoint I can make is: Show me where it's written, that the splash weapons launched by a Launching Crossbow won't be granted these bonuses like every other projectile weapon.
That's all I've got.
Thank you for discussing this by the by. ^_^ Very much appreciated.
And though I understand your point, your last paragraph may need to be refined; A bow doesn't deal the damage either! The arrow does. (Unless you're literally whacking someone over the head with a bow. )
Well, that's my point. Mechanically, no, the bow is dealing the damage via the arrow. The bow is what has a damage entry, not the arrow.
The Launching Crossbow, meanwhile, has no damage entry. Thus, the Launching Crossbow itself does not deal damage.
At this point I think it's been decently stamped out ^_^
By RAW, Matilda, my wonderful Launching Crossbow ready to rain acid and fire down upon my enemies, does not have a damage value benefit from enhancements.
I cannot find any other statements to support the whole "magic projectile weapons bestow this bonus upon their ammunition" thing. Thus, it's something I'll have to try my luck with, vis a vis with the GM.
However, the splash weapons Do benefit from any bonuses applicable to them. I'm wondering if that includes "Weapon damage rolls", as worded by several classes. ( In other words, the crossbow would benefit from attack rolls, and the splash weapons, still technically being weapons as well as ammunition, would still benefit from general bonuses to weapon damage. )
Lastly, I wonder if Crossbow Mastery truly works in this case to draw alchemical weapons as if they were ammunition.
With those two dilemmas answered, I think I'd be all set.
Resurrecting this with another question:
Can Abundant Ammunition work with a launching crossbow?
Resurrecting this with another question:
Can Abundant Ammunition work with a launching crossbow?
No, Abundant Ammunition works on things classified as ammunition. Splash weapons are not ammunition, even though Launching Crossbows fire them.