Divine Spell Lists


Homebrew and House Rules


So I've been toying with this idea for some time, and wanted to see if anyone could help point out the ramifications of it before I implement it with my group.

I've kind of always thought it silly that divine casters, like the druid or cleric or paladin, have access to every spell on their spell list every morning when they prepare spells. This gives the cleric 416 different spells... plus an additional 18 from his domains, which may be on other lists. Yes, I know that requires a 17th level cleric and and many don't play that high, but there are still over 55 level 1 spells alone!

The core fluff for why divine casters get unrestricted lists is basically that they are supposed to be simply praying to their god and the god (in their immense power) is answering the caster's prayer in the form of magic. However, since there isn't really a mechanic for the god to say no (other than stripping all casting ability) this doesn't really play out. I know 1e and 2e had some text about the GM altering a player's spell selection, or changing which spell gets cast at the time of casting, but I usually felt like I was being cheated out of my character by the GM when it happened to me, especially if the effect was worse than the one I intended.

Additionally, most divine casters are required to prepare their spells ahead of time. Basically, they have to sit down and pre-pray up all their spells... which makes little sense if it's the god providing the spell. This is somewhat further disrupted by the oracle, who has a very limited spell list. Like a sorcerer, an oracle has a very small "spells known" list and spontaneously casts from that. And oracles are supposed to be direct conduits for deities. In all practicality, arcane and divine magic ends up working the same - the player chooses a spell, and it just works.

Anyway, my suggested rule would be that spells from Core and APG are considered your "spell list" for all purposes, including what spells you can prepare and what wands/scrolls/whatever you can use freely. Then, like a wizard, a divine caster can add spells to his spell list by buying scrolls (or making a donation to a temple to learn a new votive or whatever), or may be given as part of treasure. Divine casters would also gain the ability to add new spells to their spell lists whenever they gain a new spellcasting level (one or two spells, maybe).

This helps in several regards. Players who don't want to buy all of the books don't have to. If you have Core and the APG, you have everything you need. If your character gets an additional spell, it's easy to just write down the effects of that spell (or print it off from the PRD). It speeds up gameplay. I was probably the worst about this in my last campaign. I'd sit and flip through four different books, trying to compare the effects of my various available spells in order to figure out which one was best for the situation. Then something would change, and I'd have to go looking again. Every round. Knowing that all of my spells are in just two books, it would cut my search time in half. Also, it's a power limiter. Every source book that gets released that we pick up increases the power of the game. This can be hard for GMs, especially ones who don't want to read through every spell in every sourcebook.

On top of this, I'd suggest that scrolls of spells (divine or arcane) from sources other than Core or APG are rare commodities. They exist, sure, but they aren't in every magic shop. You might have to go to one of the colleges or temples to find it.

I was considering having the spells cost the same as arcane spell scribing (a cost for the scroll/spellbook plus a rider for scribing) that is flavored as a donation to a temple and some sort of incense/libation/whatever. Basically, it costs a small amount of gold and you gain it as part of your spell list.

Anything I'm missing from this that would make it cripplingly unplayable? Any questions that I haven't answered that need answers in order to be playable?

Dark Archive

Divine spellcasters may have more spells known, but most of those spells aren't as good as their arcane counterparts.

Personally, it wouldn't make sense to me that a deity would not give their divine servants access to a wide variety of spells. Maybe not ALL of them, but most of them. They want them to be able to do their will, and they'd need a whole toolbox for that.

Completely unplayable? No. But I think it's putting a big restriction on divine prepared spellcasters that they don't need.

Verdant Wheel

i toyed around with the idea (which i never took off the ground) of generating a finite random band of spells for a given spell level that represented the divine caster's mentor's Philosophy of the Cosmos. as passed from teacher to student.

each level, including first, the character could swap in/out up to two different spells which would represent their own developing Philosophy, as diverging from their mentor's with world experience.

9/8/8/7/7/6/6/5/5 i think was the level spread. or somesuch.

i would be interested in trying this idea again. it however requires an extra ton of work for character creation. and generally goes against the pro-player-choice style of a typical Pathfinder game.

what about this:

allow Core spells to be "commonly" known, APG spells to be "uncommonly" known, and other spells to be "rare".

the character starts with the ability to pray for all common spells, and each level they may discover two uncommon or one rare?...

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