Question about swords and Catch-off-guard and TWF.

[AdamWarnock]

I've been wanting to try and build a character that uses a sword in a bit of a different way. He'd still use it normally, but in addition to the slashing, he'd use the hilt to bash in teeth and break knuckles. I'm not sure if this is allowed by RAW, but I was thinking that taking Catch-off-guard would negate the penalty for using the hilt (technically an improvised weapon that does bludgeoning damage) and TWF to allow him to follow up with the hilt. I'm aware that there are issues, but would this work to build a guy that would just crack you in the jaw if you blocked his swing? Is there some way I haven't thought about? Or am I just plain nuts for wanting to try this in the first place?

[Bearlock]

While that is thematically appropriate and in keeping with how swords were actually used in RL, finding game mechanics to support it is iffy at best.

TWF requires two weapons. Your DM may allow it, but by RAW when you TWF you use two weapons to make a series of attacks. If you attacked with your longsword, that is one weapon. Continuing to attack with that weapon is no longer TWF'ing.

EDIT: Well, after thinking about this for a second, if you're wanting to do this just as a riposte of sorts you could look into the Crane Style series of feats, or the Duelist PrC, anything that gives you an actual ability to riposte after being targeted with a melee attack. You could flavor it as hitting them with the hilt or pommel and just use the same stats, in RL hitting somebody like that could do the same amount of damage as the blade in the right situation. HD is such an abstract concept anyway, I would allow it.

[rainzax]

use a monk and flurry with a temple sword. you could do this from level 1.

[Kazaan]

I suppose you could jimmy in a houserule that says that fighting with the functional/operative ends of a sword is improvising a double weapon. But the hilt likely wouldn't be quite as effective as the blade end and you and your GM would have to decide what dice to use for it. Also, since it's going to be considered a double weapon, enhancements made to the blade won't carry over to the butt. But, ultimately, I think it's better to abstract it and say that increasing your skill with the weapon via various class abilities and/or feats that up your damage is how this functional property of sword-fighting is implemented. You're doing more damage because you're utilizing all parts of the weapon to make it more effective.

[AdamWarnock]

rainzax wrote:

use a monk and flurry with a temple sword. you could do this from level 1.

Yeah, but that's not the image I was going for.

I hadn't thought about the the combat style feats. I'll have to give those a look.

I guessed that I'd have to work with a GM on this. It's not something that the rules can really accommodate without breaking RAW, I guess. Still thought it'd be worth a try.