A friend was telling me about a game he played where a player wizard fell in the water.
The GM made him roll to see if each of his scrolls were okay, but he lost all of his scrolls.
Since I'm making a wizard soon I want a little more info on this.
I haven't been able to find any official rules on the effects of water on scrolls and spellbooks.
What do you think the rules should be for scrolls and water damage?
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I just hand-wave it. This game already has too many rules, we don't need more for "What happens if you submerge your scrolls in water?"
The way I look at it, if you're trying to cast a scroll underwater, you're probably already got some sort of spell up allowing you to do so, like a necklace of adaptation, and just assume that it extends to the scroll.
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Well scrolls are infused with the magic of the spell not just the writing of the spell on paper. Thats why the spell disappears from the scroll. I personally as a GM would not have them be erased by anything less then magic E.I. erase spell. Of coarse they can be destroyed but water alone would not destroy a scroll.
RAW, there is no rule about scrolls being ruined by a mere body of water. There are rules for them to catch fire, since fire can singe the paper (which has part of the spell) and make them unusable. It would kind of make sense for him to do the same for paper and water, though I find that the paper would be better protected against water than fire (paper is easily combustible, whereas wet paper can dry easily enough, even after being drenched/soaked into water). The writing of the runes and the spells themselves should not wash away by some water, since the incantations and such contain arcane power, and logically it would take more than some standard water to wash them away.
It would make more sense for him to roll and see if the scrolls are still usable after putting any fire out on them, since burning some of the parchment the scrolls that are stored in is more destructive, especially if it comes in a spell-like or supernatural form than it would for him to have to roll and see if mundane water ruined his arcane parchment.
Regardless, this does teach the Wizard a lesson about keeping his important scrolls in Scroll Cases, keeping them safe from the trials of adventuring, and the weathering from the elements. Plus, it's also good on the action economy, since taking a Scroll out normally is a Move Action, though he may carry special Scroll Cases which allow him to take them out as a Free Action.
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Regardless, this does teach the Wizard a lesson about keeping his important scrolls in Scroll Cases, keeping them safe from the trials of adventuring, and the weathering from the elements. Plus, it's also good on the action economy, since taking a Scroll out normally is a Move Action, though he may carry special Scroll Cases which allow him to take them out as a Free Action.
Scroll Cases aren't water-tight however.
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Scrolls are made of parchment (animal skin), not paper if that helps matters for anyone.
Scroll Cases aren't water-tight however.
This is kind of the argument I can't get past if scrolls can't be destroyed by water why do Scroll cases mention anything about water?
also:
Magic items, unless otherwise noted, take damage as nonmagical items of the same sort. A damaged magic item continues to function, but if it is destroyed, all its magical power is lost.
If water damages scrolls then how much damage until it's destroyed?
Is it possible for a scroll that it unreadable to still be usable?
or is it destroyed once it becomes unreadable.
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Even if the price of scrolls and spell book have been greatly reduced from 3.5, they remain relatively expensive for "common" items. We could easily assume that part of that cost goes into some sort of protection against aging, water or pest damage. I see it as a magical waxing and insect-repellant process.
I've drop my 3.5 Player handbook in the bath once (hey, busy life with kids; bath is one of the few quiet time I can enjoy) and it came out undamaged. Another WotC book was dropped by the kids in the bath and remained there overnight. That one shows obvious swelling damage but is otherwise in usable condition. Then, my Forgotten Realms campaign book was dropped in the washing machine. This one suffered more extensive damage as it was chewed by the central post and shuffled around with the clothes. Nevertheless, it was reestablished in usable conditions (with a bit of gaffer tape at the seem).
From that I made 3 observations. 1) WotC did/does good printing. 2) Bathroom is not a good place for books. 3) In a fantasy world, properly enchanted/alchemically treated books should be able to withstand serious water damage.
Karlgamer, ask your GM. If he/she feels it is necessary to check for this type of thing, then there would likely be something your character can do to help protect his scrolls (waterproof scroll cases, magic items, etc).
Well, I would like to gather as much information as possible to present my GM with.
I like fallowing things rules pretty strictly. If all I have to do is buy a Scroll box I don't mind.
The thing I'm worried about is retrieving my scrolls quickly.
If a Scroll box in my backback becomes two move actions then it make it harder to cast scrolls during combat.
Swift Scroll (Ex): The cyphermage does not provoke attacks of opportunity when retrieving a stored scroll. If the cyphermage moves at least 10 feet, he may retrieve a scroll as a free action as part of his move.
Will this ability still work if I have my scrolls in a box in my backback?
I don't see why not. RAW, it doesn't say that the scroll must be accessible with a move action or less for the ability to function. The requisite to retrieve scrolls as a Free Action is that the character must move 10 feet or more in a given turn before retrieving the scroll as an action.
The ability isn't all that great. It's a lesser version of drawing a weapon as part of a move action, except it applies to Scrolls. There are special Scroll Cases to purchase that allow you to retrieve Scrolls as a Swift action, as far as I remember. Even so, retrieving a Scroll as a Move Action and completing the Scroll as a Standard Action, that Swift Action can instead be used for a Quicken Metamagic Spell. I know our party Wizard used them before, and chances are you can probably find it in Ultimate Equipment, APG, or the Core itself. If they're not there, then it must be a houserule thing and I apologize for the mis-information.
Parchment or vellum are made from leather, and impervious to water.
Dunno 'bout papyrus, but you can make boats out of it so that can't be all to bothered by getting wet either.
Paper can be treated to become water-resistant by using oil - given the value of magical scrolls, that would be a reasonable precaution.
So scrolls shouldn't be destroyed by getting wet.
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Even if the price of scrolls and spell book have been greatly reduced from 3.5, they remain relatively expensive for "common" items. We could easily assume that part of that cost goes into some sort of protection against aging, water or pest damage. I see it as a magical waxing and insect-repellant process.
I've drop my 3.5 Player handbook in the bath once (hey, busy life with kids; bath is one of the few quiet time I can enjoy) and it came out undamaged. Another WotC book was dropped by the kids in the bath and remained there overnight. That one shows obvious swelling damage but is otherwise in usable condition. Then, my Forgotten Realms campaign book was dropped in the washing machine. This one suffered more extensive damage as it was chewed by the central post and shuffled around with the clothes. Nevertheless, it was reestablished in usable conditions (with a bit of gaffer tape at the seem).
From that I made 3 observations. 1) WotC did/does good printing. 2) Bathroom is not a good place for books. 3) In a fantasy world, properly enchanted/alchemically treated books should be able to withstand serious water damage.
That mean that the coated paper used in those books is good and that you did a good job drying it. The coat used in many coated paper products is water soluble and if the book is left to dry without separating the pages they get glued together and the book become useless.
About scrolls and water: the scroll is made of "fine vellum or high-quality paper", both have little problem with water exposure if they are died adequately afterward. Their main problem is mold from humidity. After the Florence flooding some book was kept in clear water for a long time, till there was a restorer available to treat the mud and pollutants damage. It was more damaging to dry them out with the pollutants untreated than leave them in clear water.
The weak part is the ink. If it is a water soluble ink even a short immersion can be very damaging, but seeing the cost of producing a scroll and the high quality of the inks used it is almost sure that the ink would not be a water soluble one, so a scroll or a spellbook will generally weather well a immersion in water, it they are treated the right way afterward.