Cloudy Gaze + Obscuring Mist +Darkvision

[Ar'ruum]

My character is a Sorcerer Sylph with Cloud Gazer feat. As a racial trait I have darkvision(60ft). My question has 2 parts:

1. If I cast Obscuring Mist, since it is created magically, the way I read it is that it satisfies the Cloud Gazer condition for the triple the distance seen. Agree or Disagree

2. Would this apply to my Darkvision(60ft). In a dark cave, I cast Obscuring Mist, is my darkvision distance tripled to receive 180ft?

Sources cited below:

Advanced Race Guide pg. 157 Sylph Racial Traits wrote:

Darkvision: Sylphs can see in the dark up to 60 feet.

Advanced Race Guide pg. 159 Sylph Feats wrote:

Cloud Gazer

Your insight into your elemental heritage gives you a clarity of sight few humans possess.
Prerequisite:: Sylph.
Benefit:: You can see through fog, mist, and clouds, without penalty, ignoring any cover or concealment bonuses from such effects. If the effect is created by magic, this feat instead triples the distance you can see without penalty.

Pathfinder Core pg. 317 wrote:

Obscuring Mist

School conjuration (creation); Level cleric 1, druid 1, sorcerer/
wizard 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: 20 ft.
Effect: cloud spreads in 20-ft. radius from you, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: none; Spell Resistance no
A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target).

A moderate wind (11+ mph), such as from a gust of wind spell, disperses the fog in 4 rounds. A strong wind (21+ mph) disperses the fog in 1 round. A fireball, flame strike, or similar spell burns away the fog in the explosive or fiery spell’s area. A wall of fire burns away the fog in the area into which it deals damage. This spell does not function underwater.

[Oladon]

I don't believe you're reading the Cloud Gazer feat as intended. Note the "instead" in the feat's text; that means you don't get the first benefit, which is to see through the obscuring mist without any penalties whatsoever. Instead, you triple the distance you can see without penalty. In the case of obscuring mist, that's a bit tricky, since you can't see even 5' away without penalty... meaning it wouldn't have any effect at all.

Not-as-written:

Your GM might rule that you can see creatures 5' and 10' away without penalty, the 15' square is where creatures have concealment, and past that is where creatures have total concealment. You should ask your GM.

Either way, it doesn't affect your darkvision in the way you're reading it.

[Ar'ruum]

You make an excellent point on the instead part... But I'm not so sure that I agree on the on the exclusion of effect on darkvision... I would think that since the description of obscuring mist specifically references darkvision, The effect of cloudberries would be the same through dark vision just as a normal vision through the nest increasing visual distance by three times.

Regardless I think your point is extremely well-made and would not work as I was thinking. It does kind of blow away my idea of a Wunderkent look out... C'est la vie

[Nefreet]

I believe Oladon is wrong. People are analyzing the English language too closely when it comes to this wording. The feat makes it so you see without penalty in mist/fog/clouds, and if the mist/fog/clouds are magical then you see triple your normal distance in them. In your example of casting Obscuring Mist in darkness, a Sylph with Cloud Gazer should be able to see 15ft.

Here is a previous discussion on the matter.

[Ar'ruum]

I guess the way I was reading it was like this, if there is natural cloud, most, or fog, a sylph could see normally. If the effect is created magically, INSTEAD of seeing normally, you see at triple distance. I guess I feel as though there's a bit of a difference because the sylph's elemental heritage. They are classified as outsider[native]. In my mind this means that they are treated as an other plane entity who has been altered to permanently reside on our normal material plane. If the sylph were classified as a humanoid with many elemental qualities, I think it'd be a different situation.

I guess I'll just have to go ahead and submit it to my GM and how he interprets it.

[Nefreet]

You are absolutely correct. They are outside (native), just like an Aasimar or Tiefling. I don't think anybody is arguing against that.

[Ar'ruum]

I was more just expressing why I was thinking about it.

In daylight though, since a cloud gazer can see through mist with no penalty, and obscuring mist is magically created, would it multiply the normal viewing distance with no penalty? Or would it still limit viewing distance to 10-15ft with no penalty instead of only 5ft?

[Nefreet]

15ft

[Arizhel]

Obscuring mist is a magical effect.
The distance you can normally see without penalty in Obscuring Mist is up to 5'.
Because it is a magical effect the 'instead' provision kicks in, tripling the distance.

up to 5' becomes up to 15'.

[Adamantine Dragon]

I would just rule that you get the 5' effect for 15'. Meaning that you would have a 20% miss chance for 15 feet.

No, it doesn't "make sense" in a real world sense.

But that's how the RAW reads.

[Nefreet]

Except for the whole "ignoring any cover or concealment bonuses from such effects" part. That's how the RAW reads.

[Dennis Baker]

In magical fog you can see 5' without penalty.

With the feat you can see three times that distance without penalty.

15 feet.