Underwater missile use and merfolk crossbow

[Diego Rossi]

Underwater combat rules:

PRD wrote:

Ranged Attacks Underwater: Thrown weapons are ineffective underwater, even when launched from land. Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range.

Underwater Crossbow:

PRD wrote:

Merfolk Equipment

Merfolk have access to the following equipment.

Underwater Crossbow: An underwater crossbow functions like its normal counterpart above water, and can be used underwater. When fired underwater, the crossbow has a range increment of 20 feet. Anyone proficient with a normal crossbow can use an underwater crossbow.

As written the merfolk crossbow is an inferior weapon as its range is shortened and its quarrels still suffer from the "–2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through".

Probably the RAI is that the other missile weapon have shortened range increments of 5' when used underwater, but the RAW don't say that.

The questions from that are:
- missile weapons used underwater are meant to have a 5' range increment instead of their normal range increment?
- there is a more extensive explanation of underwater combat in some supplement, like the shackles pirate AP?

- * -

My reading is that normal missile weapons are meant to have a range increment of 5' underwater and special ones, like the merfolk crossbow are meant to have different range increments, but that is a personal interpretation.
I think this need a FAQ.

[Cheapy]

I think the "and can be used underwater" is meant to mean it wouldn't take those penalties you mentioned, but we'll see.

[Russ Taylor]

The intention is that it just accrues range penalties from the 20 foot range increment, not the normal every 5 foot penalty. Yes, it is more effective underwater than other projectile weapons.

[HangarFlying]

I think the more important question is: does a non-magical longbow/short bow/crossbow have the same maximum range if fired underwater that it does when fired normally above water?

[Diego Rossi]

HangarFlying wrote:

I think the more important question is: does a non-magical longbow/short bow/crossbow have the same maximum range if fired underwater that it does when fired normally above water?

If the RAI is to change the range increments, no. 10 5' range increments give you a total range of 50'.

So your question is part of the original set of questions.

Russ Taylor wrote:

The intention is that it just accrues range penalties from the 20 foot range increment, not the normal every 5 foot penalty. Yes, it is more effective underwater than other projectile weapons.

It is a very reasonable version of a specialized weapon. The problem is in the text of the CRB:

"Attacks with other ranged weapons take a –2 penalty on attack rolls for every 5 feet of water they pass through, in addition to the normal penalties for range."

So the CRB rules don't replace the normal range increments with a range increment of 5', but add a penalty and maintain the original range increments.

The result is that a longbow is capable to hit at 1.000' underwater while getting a -400 modifier for passing through the water while the specialized weapon get a maximum range of 200'.
See RD thread here

[Ravingdork]

I agree with Cheapy. I think the intent is for the underwater crossbows to ignore the -2/5' underwater penalty, but have a reduced overall range when used underwater.