So my PC's just finished The House of the Beast, they have the Scroll of Kakishon, Zayifid and the Carrion King are dead, and they'll be returning to Kelmarane shortly. This is all going swimmingly and they're having a great time. Only problem? They're level 8 and Jackal's Price says they should be starting at level 7. On top of the that, they're only ~13,000 xp away from level 9!
I probably did too many random encounters in book 1 and in the Brazen Peaks, so I'm gonna stick with the written encounters from here on out, but what do I do about them being too high a level? I don't want to take away their xp, that would be stupid and mean.
So what's a DM to do? Do I ignore the first 13,000 xp of book 3? Obviously I'll leave out any random encounters, but how do I stop them from completely bulldozing their way through book 3? Maybe only give them half xp?
I noticed about 1/2 way through HotB that they were plowing through all the fights, so I gave the Carrion Guards and Initiates a level or two, this was probably my biggest mistake.
I'm thinking I can either:
-Level up the fights in Jackal's Price, but keep the xp the same as it would be normally (probably my best option)
-Find a level's worth of fighting/xp to skip (don't really want to do this)
-Level up the fights in Jackal's Price AND give out proper xp (could be fun, but could get a crazy if they're level 15 by book 5)
-Switch them to the Medium XP track (not a bad option, can always switch back to the Fast Track if necessary)
How much extra have you been adding? I'm going to be starting soon, and I'm considering using Medium advancement as well to allow room for the set pieces and random encounters.
I couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but if you stick with the book you should be ok. Just be stingy with those random encounters!
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I crunched these numbers myself back when I was converting LoF to PF, and on the fast XP track, House of the Beast can easily end up putting the PCs a solid level ahead of the curve. Going just off the adventures as published, expect the PCs to stay a full level ahead of the game through The Jackal's Price and into The End of Eternity. However, TEoE runs a little shy on XP, so once they hit Chapter 4, unless you pile on the random encounters, the XP curve normalizes and they should stay on track through the rest of the campaign.
And yes, House of the Beast is filled with mooks. If an NPC doesn't have an individual name, it's one-hit cannon fodder.
I'm using the Medium XP track, so my PCs are on track (they're going to hit 8th level right on target, just as soon as they overcome the Sons of Carrion), but they tend to be an offensive powerhouse. I have a ranger who's been slicing through gnolls like butter since 2nd level, a cleric who mainly acts as a healing battery, hanging back and keeping everyone else on their feet, and a pair of artillery pieces: an explosive bomb-flinging alchemist and a sorcerer whose main offensive spell is a cold-based fireball.
In House of the Beast, the sorcerer all but wiped out all of the unchosen with a single area spell. For our group, the adventure ended with a massive battle in which about 90% of the total enemies in the entire adventure hurled themselves at the PCs in wave after wave. The alchemist didn't run out of bombs.
So yeah, I can feel your pain. Here's an immediate bit of advice: The Jackal's Price has a reputation of being fairly easy. As written, I tend to agree. The Carrion Siege, which is where my players are at just this moment, is meant to be the last hurrah of the Carrion Tribes, but it's (supposedly) a CR 8 encounter against CR 7 foes who have open ground on their side, have at least a few rounds of warning (and more likely several minutes) to prepare, and numerous NPC allies. And most of the enemies in this "climactic" encounter are CR 1 mooks who individually are just on the cusp of being too puny to grant XP when defeated.
Going into this fight, I wasn't confident that a single baddie would so much as reach melee before getting blasted to dust. So with all of that in mind, I've done the following to boost the Sons of Carrion. (I also have an advantage in that I'm running on the Medium XP track, and thus have a slowly accumulating XP deficit that requires/allows constant topping up).
First Wave: As written, it's 8 CR 1 desert raiders. These guys are basically mooks being sent in ahead to soak up a few of the PCs' offensive abilities, but I've given them 4 dire hyenas to ride. (Those dire hyenas have always been a lot nastier than the gnolls riding them.) I've also made the raiders (who are al-Chorhaiv in my game) raging barbarians, which at least gives them an extra hit or two of survivability.
Second Wave: As written, it's 8 gnolls and 4 hyenas, each a lowly CR 1 critter. Even worse for their chances, they use bad tactics, eating up a round to pick off their own deserters. I've also given this wave 4 dire hyenas to ride.
Third Wave: As written, it's Shiz, an ettin, and 3 more gnolls. I'm running Shiz as a 6th-level inquisitor (CR 6), I made her ettin a Mana Wastes mutant, the gnolls are now Carrion Guards (who no longer have poisoned arrows), and the whole lot have 3 more dire hyenas between them.
A couple of things have happened in my campaign that you can't/might not want to reproduce, but here's the main thing to keep in mind: This battle is literally a grudge match. The Sons of Carrion have been stalking the heroes for weeks or months at this point, and they, perhaps for the one and only time in this entire campaign, know exactly what they're facing in the PCs. The Sons of Carrion should do everything within their tactical power to counter the PCs' usual tricks. My group, for instance, leans heavily on nuking the battlefield with deadly area effect spells. I don't know if my players have consciously realized it yet, but they are starting to voice frustration that the Sons of Carrion are staying so spread out that they're having to either "waste" bombs and area spells on single targets--or are otherwise holding off on their big artillery, which in turn is giving the mooks a chance to whittle away at the caravan's NPC outriders.
I also have an ace up my sleeve that you might not; Zayifid survived House of the Beast, and the Carrion Siege is thus fated to be his final stand as well. He's been posing as a Carrion Guard scout for the Sons of Carrion since the warband came together, and spends Wave One invisibly flying across the field of battle. As soon as Wave Two begins, he'll be in position to strike.
My advice: Within the bounds of internal consistency, pull out every cheap shot and dirty trick you can think of. Have your mooks ignore the PCs to target weak NPCs; don't just have them drop PCs and their allies--take the time to coup de grace them. There's virtually no chance of the Sons of Carrion doing much damage in this fight, so remember that to them, every death they inflict is a victory. (And also remember that even if the PCs aren't yet capable of casting raise dead themselves, they're practically within sight of a city where powerful priests are more than happy to part them from a portion of their generous piles of loot to cast it on their behalf.)
When it comes to the second half of the adventure, I don't have concrete advice there, except a reminder that The Jackal's Price considers that assault a "ticking clock" scenario: it's intended for the PCs to take out that whole nest of baddies in one day.
P.S. Hell of Eternal Thirst is a complete pushover as well, particularly since the adventure structure provides the PCs with a powerful ally and plenty of warning as to what they'll face. My PCs are such offensive powerhouses that they're honestly cocky and got completely blindsided by their first encounter with the temple's spectral inhabitant, but other than a surprise energy drain whammy, I don't think a single undead denizen managed to so much as lay a hand on the PCs. Don't sweat it though; treat that side adventure as a chance for the PCs to flex their muscles.
John Mangrum: Nice, thanks for the advice! I'm probably going to use a few of your changes, maybe switch some of the gnolls for Unchosen. I'll give them 1/2 xp for the desert encounters and put them on the Medium xp track until they're near the end of Jackal's Price.
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One subtle thing you could do to throttle back on the XP is to give the caravan NPCs (namely Garavel and the guards) their fair share of XP for encounters in which they meaningfully contribute. They're not on the level of the PCs, but having those extra arrows and scimitars flashing around certainly doesn't hurt.
I've added my revised stats for Shiz and the Mana Wastes ettin to my conversions thread, for the record.
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Another subtle thing with low-level mooks -- have another low-level mook boosting them. A level 1 cleric casting bless and healing, a level 1 bard inspiring courage -- these things make them more of a danger to the PCs, plus some nifty intermediate objectives (kill the drummer and they all slow down a bit).
Plus the image of a gnoll riding a hyena beating drums made from the skin of dead enemies he's personally devoured is just too fun for a DM to pass up. ;)
I'm just about to start into (a heavily revised) Jackal's Price myself.
Just eyeballing it, I would say that almost everything in that book is much too weak for 7th level, let alone 8th. Advanced templates all around!
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Yeah, the only parts that seemed like they could provide real challenges are the Captain of the Sunset Ship (if the party decides to actually fight him), and the final encounter. But, only if some of his back-up is with him, like the mummy and the Emkrah.
But, neither fight are likely to happen like that (or at all.)
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I'm scrapping most of it. The desert chase stuff can stay, but pretty much all the events in Katapesh proper are being changed to a custom adventure.
Basically, the players return to Kelmarane and are confronted by Garavel and the princess, along with an intimidating number of Zephyr Guards and some Aluum. They demand the scroll be "taken into their custody until negotiations are complete" ... they are transported to Katapesh in comfortable captivity, and eventually confronted with a Pactmaster and his human translator. Basically, they are "buying" the scroll, but they are going to pay the negotiated price.
The players know the importance of the scroll at this point, and will do anything to get it back. The heist is on! They find out that the scroll is likely stored inside the Red Pyramid, which in my campaign is actually (secretly) the diamond-shaped starcraft that brought the pactmasters from their distant desert world.
Using a black-market Aluum amulet and some potions of invisibility, they must sneak into the pyramid's treasury and recover the scroll. The map and many of the encounters will use the Pact Stone Pyramid module, with a couple of encounters changed to be more "ancient alien".
I figure a heist plot is the perfect way to show off Katapesh's incredible marketplace. After all those crazy Katapesh adventures, I plan to lead into book 4 as outlined in this post.
It's a lot of work, but worth it!
I'm early in chapter 3 in my PBP game (back on track with the sidetrek) and worked out pretty much every combat needed substantial revision.
Its a very noticeable change in the difficulty curve from TOB and some of the major encounters in HotCC without even taking into account a PF group is going to be slightly ahead of a 3.5 party at the same EL.
For the Carrion Siege a mediocre meleer Shiz looked like a speed bump. I have her as pure sorceress along with plenty more mooks and a ranger (human favored enemy) companion.
I don't see how the poor captain is scary at all as a rogue by himself. Currently toying with what Lengian allies he can summon.
For the dungeon yep lots of enemies together for a big final battle and another double helping of mooks.
Without giving away too many details I have both Pazhvann and a div-inspired Davashuum appearing, the former borrowing heavily from some of John's ideas. Similar to your idea Evil Lincoln I have Davashuum as a possible fallback for scroll triggering.
It took us a remarkable six sessions (which probably means about 12-18 hours of game time, using a virtual tabletop), but we've completed the Carrion Siege at last! The players came away quite pleased with the slightly boosted version of the encounter I used. They suffered only one casualty (an NPC Outrider whom, in rapid succession, dropped Shiz with an arrow, got slammed right out of his saddle by the ettin, and was then coup de graced by a Carrion Guard), but several PCs and followers were in dire peril at various points, and the players remarked on how they consistently felt challenged, but never unfairly overwhelmed.
The Numbers
PCs' Caravan: 4 7th-level PCs, 2 5th-level cohorts, 2 followers, 2 animal companions, 6 allied NPCs (1 of whom was a drain on party resources), and 10 regular ol' camels (most of which high-tailed it out of there)
Enemies: 37
Interloping Genies: 2
Remaining Daily Resources: Alchemist used all but 1 bomb, sorcerer used all but 1 spell slot, cleric used all of his channeled energy
Encounter Length: 35 rounds from first sighting of the Sons of Carrion to the last one falling in battle
Rounds Spent Actively Engaged in Combat: 18
Pricey Magic Items Expended: 4
Total Loot Recovered: sale value 20,000 gp, weight 720 lbs.
So you ran with the enemies above John? What did the janni end up doing? Cancelling each other out?
After a bit of delay my group are about to have their first taste of eternal thirst. They aced their diplomacy check and brought the lammasu on board but some difficult choices resulted in them making their assault just as the sun set.
Pazhvann was the first to appear, drawing the PCs to the oasis, where he tried to barter for the Scroll of Kakishon with a low-ball bid of a carpet of flying. The PCs, who at this point have become rather paranoid due to Zayifid's ongoing meddling, were rude and confrontational, so as soon as the PCs noticed the Sons of Carrion coming, he provided some backstory on the warband. (Unable to locate the Scroll with his divination spells due to the PCs' countermeasures, he'd been following the Sons for a while now as they hunted the PCs.) Then he rolled up his carpet and vanished; "I am not your enemy, but plainly, you are not my allies." He shifted to the Ethereal Plane to observe the battle, and the PCs assumed he'd gone entirely.
The PCs then had a few minutes to prepare, spending the first few discussing tactics and then when I officially "started the clock" they spend 15 rounds prepping. Two PCs take to the air, and another perches up on top of the sphinx with a cohort and Amwyr Yuseifah.
Wave One: Shiz sends her first wave over the ridge, sending in the Sordaiv berserkers first with the intention of using them to soak up the PCs' spells and bombs. (And hey, they're human, so she considers them completely expendable.) The raiders ride in on dire hyenas, splitting up and spreading out as quickly as possible to force the party alchemist and sorcerer to "waste" their artillery on single targets. The PCs toss down an entangle spell and later a wall of fire to wall themselves in, forcing the Sons of Carrion to take long approaches to reach them. Rather than sticking to the round-by-round schedule of each wave as published, I sent in Wave Two about the time half of Wave One had been dropped. Meanwhile, disguised as a Carrion Guard, Zayifid spends the first wave of the battle flying invisibly over the battlefield, making a beeline for the isolated party sorcerer.
Wave Two: Shiz sends her in Three Jaws gnolls and more hyenas. About half of the Sordaiv raiders are still standing, with most of the survivors in covered positions and plinking away at vulnerable-looking and exposed members of the PCs' group with bows, managing to do a little damage here and there. Just as Wave Two starts closing in, Zayifid appears, popping into view as he sneak attacks the sorcerer, badly wounding him--it's only the sorcerer's mirror images that keep him alive. This shuts down the sorcerer and the cavalier/ranger races up to run interference. Amwyr panics (he's literally lying prone at the feet of what he thinks is a gnoll assassin) and drinks a potion of gaseous form the PCs had provided him with. The sorcerer dispatches his wounded cohort to watch Amwyr, so she drinks her potion of gaseous form as well. This effectively removes both the cohort and Amwyr from the rest of the fight. With the sorcerer and ranger/cavalier busy, the Sons of Carrion start pressing in closer; some of their dire hyenas reach caravan members, but the Outriders are keeping them at bay. The sorcerer flees to the cleric, and the alchemist is still raining bombs on the enemy. After trading blows with the ranger/cavalier, Zayifid turns invisible again, taking to the air.
Wave Three: Shiz, her mutant ettin, and three Carrion Guards crest the ridge with her last three dire hyenas. Shiz has spent the intervening rounds casting as many buffs as she can on herself, including protection from energy (fire) for her and the mutant ettin. (In a pure oversight on my part, however, I forgot to have her cast protection from energy (cold) on herself, leaving her vulnerable to the sorcerer.) Shiz and the ettin keep the alchemist busy; he drops several explosive bombs on them, but is frustrated by what little effect they're having. Meanwhile, Shiz penetrates his protection from arrows with a critical hit from her human bane crossbow, and the ettin's acidic breath weapon takes him by surprise as well; the alchemist is forced to retreat and regroup. The cleric channels energy, and Zayifid reappears in the air above him, flinging daggers down at him. The first is a sneak attack and badly wounds the cleric. The Sons of Carrion are getting pretty tattered at this point (there's literally dozens of bodies piling up all over the place, some of them on fire), but Zayifid taunts the PCs, laying out his new tactic: he's just going to kill one of them here and now, preferably the cleric, but anyone will do. Then he'll retreat and recover, and be back in a few days to kill another. And then another, and finally the last of them, until he gets what he wants. What Zayifid (and the PCs don't know) is that Pazhvann is hovering nearby, silently observing everything from the Ethereal Plane. As soon as Zayifid appeared in the battle, Pazhvann started buffing himself, then invisibly returns to the Material Plane. When he suddenly burst back into view, he's a 12-foot-tall figure of awe and terror, clad in glowing armor, and he zaps Zayifid with a dimensional anchor. This is great for the PCs, who'd been so preoccupied with the Sons of Carrion themselves that the cleric failed to prepare his usual Zayifid countermeasures that day. The sorcerer pulls out a scroll and zaps Zayifid with glitterdust; now Zayifid knows he has no option but to fight to the death, and at this point he knows he's doomed. Pazhvann and Zayifid trade a few bitter words, but otherwise Pazhvann simply hangs back, content to have his foes all wipe each other out.
Meanwhile, a combination of bombs and spells have finally whittled Shiz down, and a single arrow from an Outrider drops her. No longer shadowing Shiz, the mutant ettin now starts charging the mounted Outriders, knocking two unwounded warriors into negative hp in as many rounds. A Carrion Guard moves in the ettin's wake, intent on coup de gracing any fallen foes it reaches (but ultimately it only reaches one Outrider). The alchemist, who's down to his last two bombs and basically digging through his pockets for magic to keep himself going, hucks one bomb at Shiz when he sees a Carrion Guard races over and pour its healing potion down her throat, then hurls a bead of force at the ettin, hoping to trap it as it's barreling down on the central group of PCs. The bead fails to trap the ettin but badly wounds it; on the other hand, it vomits another spray of acid all over the alchemist, leaving him, again, barely conscious.
The ranger/cavalier flies over to the wounded ettin and slays it in one blow with a well-timed critical, and Zayifid drops down to attack the fleeing cleric, finding himself having to cut a path through the PCs' minions. The ranger/cavalier's leopard companion pounces on the badly wounded Zayifid, dropping him into negative hp. I kept him conscious for dramatic purposes, but at this point he drops to his knees and he's done. The ranger/cavalier shares a few words with him, then coup de graces him.
While the two Outriders still on their feet trade blows with the last Son of Carrion still standing off in the distance, the battered PCs find themselves warily eying Pazhvann, who looks rather uncomfortably like the wrath of god at the moment. Pazhvann is plainly pondering whether to simply take the Scroll of Kakishon by force at this point, but fortunately, the social-fu cleric made a fantastic diplomatic appeal, his DC 30+ Diplomacy check helping to mask the fact that my players just really can't stop themselves from mouthing off to every genie they encounter. On the other hand, Pazhvann just helped slay someone he considered a brother for 25 centuries, and he's not in the mood for more killing. Declaring that he thinks he's making a mistake, Pazvhann tells the PCs that he will return in one month to make a final appeal for the Scroll; hopefully they'll be more amenable to discussion at that point. "Until then, use your time to mourn your dead, as we shall mourn ours." (The Outrider who died was a cousin to the ranger/cavalier, y'see.) Pazvhann plane shifts away, but first he issues a warning, echoing old folktales about the Templars: "Where Pazhvann cannot succeed, my mistress must call upon Davashuum."
(Pazhvann won't return; by the time his deadline arrives, the PCs will have either transitioned into TEoE or Davashuum will have reacted "poorly" to Pazhvann's decision to spare them.)