Stonelord's elemental seems broken...


Rules Questions


I have a Stonelord paladin in my group, and he has his bonded elemental - this has created a whole lot of irritating problems.

His elemental can move through stone walls and other stone surfaces no problem, which means he can effectively circumvent most any stone structure with little problem, which is irritating...

the more frustrating issue, though, is the frigging tremorsense. my enemies can't hide, because his elemental can FEEL them within 60 feet - that's an obscene radius, especially only at level 5. it can feel creatures several rooms away with that ridiculous range, and its senses are linked with the paladin's, so he automatically knows too.

Am I the only one that thinks this might be a bit OP?

Liberty's Edge

It might feel strong, but tremorsense does not let you know *who* is standing there, it doesn't sense flying creatures, it's blocked by silence, it still leaves you with 50% miss chances, requires that you're standing on the ground (so no flying of your own), doesn't negate flat-footed-ness against invisible creatures, etc.

Tremorsense might feel strong at 5th level, but it's replacing a decently strong ability.

The earth glide ability has limited usefulness outside of scouting. It does not, to my knowledge, grant the elemental the ability to see through stone, so they cannot see into a room without poking their head out and revealing themselves (except for what they can see with tremorsense). He also cannot bring anyone with him when doing this, and is not strong enough to go forward on his own.

TL;DR - Strong, but not OP in my opinion.


You're probably aware, but tremorsense only allows the earth elemental to pinpoint the location of creatures (that is to say against invisible creatures it still suffers a 50% misschance).

Still very powerful. Especially compared to a normal paladin mount. I imagine the "balancing" aspect is the lack of smite evil.

Liberty's Edge

He know there is something solid (it don't detect incorporeal creatures) touching the ground (so no flying, hovering or swimming creatures) and moving withing 60'.
As written it can detect even stationary creatures, but that seem outside of detecting "vibrations in the ground". It don't know what is the creature, at most its size (i.e. the number of squares it occupies).

We can even discuss what is "ground". A stone floor, dirt, ok. A wooden plank on the floor? maybe. A wool carpet? it depend on how tick it is.
Second floor of a house? No.

It can detect a person sitting on a chair? As written, no, as it is not touching the ground. Unless the person is purposefully immobile I would probably make it detectable.

Tremorsense need a lot of GM interpretation.

PRD wrote:


Stone Servant (Su): At 5th level, a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount. This earth elemental is Lawful Good in alignment and possesses the celestial template, and it increases in size as the stonelord gains levels, becoming Medium at 8th level, Large at 11th level, Huge at 14th level, Greater at 17th level, and Elder at 20th level. This ability replaces divine bond.

I don't see anything about linked senses here and in the divine bond ability. And this ability replace divine bond, so in any instance you get only what is in this ability, not the divine bond abilities.

The stone servant isn't a familiar.
It don't get the ability to speak with the paladin, so the paladin need to learn Terran to speak with it.


What the others said. Plus the normal paladin mount (the horse) fights much better, has scent to detect hidden or invisible creatures, has hore hitpoints and gets feats which the paladin can choose.

All in all the stone servant is not OP, it is a weak replacement for an otherwise nice class ability. Without its tremorsense and earthglide it would be totally useless. With them it is just meh.

Liberty's Edge

Also remember Earthglide does not work with "worked stone". that is most dungeons.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
it's blocked by silence

How'd you figure that?


My guess would be that it is a case of using a houserule without knowing its a houserule.


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VRMH wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
it's blocked by silence
How'd you figure that?

He is probably thinking that silence stops the vibrations, however i would interject that it only stops the soundwaves not the vibration through the floor.

Liberty's Edge

jjaamm wrote:
Also remember Earthglide does not work with "worked stone". that is most dungeons.

The elemental Earth glide doesn't have that limitation:

Quote:
Earth Glide (Ex) A burrowing earth elemental can pass through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing a burrowing earth elemental flings the elemental back 30 feet, stunning the creature for 1 round unless it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.

On the other hand a wooden floor or wooden paneling on the walls will stop it.


Rogar Stonebow wrote:
He is probably thinking that silence stops the vibrations, however i would interject that it only stops the soundwaves not the vibration through the floor.

Vibrations in all media can be called sound, not just air.

That said, generally silence is ruled to be detectable by blindsight because it creates a bubble of absolute silence which stands out against background noise ... same argument goes for tremor sense.

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