There was thread a while ago about who do all the pirates in the shackles preyed on. The pirates have an agreement with Sargava. While some traffic down to Savgara may not be covered by the agreement, it does not makes sense that that Sargava could survive if a majority of its trade does not get through.
The obvious answer is that the piracy takes place north of the Eye of Abendego, and the pirates travel to and fro between the shackles and Rahadoum/Cheliax. However this is not how the AP shows this happening
People came up with some ideas about undersea civilisations around the shackles, who have trade routes the pirates raid. This is interesting but changes the politics of the region, so I do not want to pursue this.
So my idea is that we know there are countries south of the Mwangi Expanse/Sargava. Makes sense that the merchants are travelling between the inner sea area to them and back.
So here is the question “Do we know the names of any of these kingdoms?
perhaps check the article on Golarion's oceans in "Raiders of the Fever Sea" which explains some about undersea activities around Garund.
We also know since Shatterd Star#3, that there must be a nameless nation of catfolk somewhere in the south of Garund, trading with northern realms (because one can meet one of their numbers in Magnimar).
The Guide to the Inner Sea, 2nd Edition lists p.207 the Nations of Dehrukani and Nurvatacha, and the swamp realm of Droon ruled by the warlike matriarchy of Holomog. There are also the colonies of Chauxen and Tirakawhan mentioned.
Thanks vikingson, that was the kind of thing I was looking for.
Thanks vikingson, that was the kind of thing I was looking for.
Aehh.... since I was the guy who some months ago came up with the underwater kingdoms and southern empires (non-Canon), never mind shipping from once-Atzlan and other stuff, I felt it my duty to intervene. *grins*
In all honesty : the "3-5 realms list" of Southern Garund looks kind of threadbare^^ Huge continent, milder climates going south and we still have nothing but some threadbare tribal cultures ?
I'd really like to see some companion or chronicle abouth southern Garund or Casmaron/Vudra one of these days, but alas....
Two more raiding options are the independent cities of Bloodcove (small city, pop. 5,281) and Senghor (metropolis, pop. 26,430). Both of these cities have a thriving sea trade and do not share Sargava's agreement with the Shackles pirates.
Two more raiding options are the independent cities of Bloodcove (small city, pop. 5,281) and Senghor (metropolis, pop. 26,430). Both of these cities have a thriving sea trade and do not share Sargava's agreement with the Shackles pirates.
Bloodcove is the personal "harbour" of the Aspis Consortium and Senghor.... goes generallly easy on the piracy as long as the stuff is sold in Senghor.
So raiding Senghor costs you a major market and refurbishment opportunity and the Aspis consortium... guess they can make "raiding" on their ships pretty dangerous.
Looking at history ; many caribbean pirates (like Jake Rackham) simply plundered the "few folks" local traffic (like barges with sugar or grain) sailing from island to island for provisions, with little gold, but also little risk. Or smugglers (which may be harder to implement).
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I believe in the original conceptual design for Golarion, Southern Garund was slated as the location for crazy "high fantasy" stuff. Like possibly crystal cities, magic-driven economies, strange civilized races, etc.
I think it might be a long time before it gets fleshed out any more than it has been. It seems that Paizo's more interested in a whole lot of other places right now. Which is understandable, but not particularly helpful for answering this particular question.
I believe in the original conceptual design for Golarion, Southern Garund was slated as the location for crazy "high fantasy" stuff. Like possibly crystal cities, magic-driven economies, strange civilized races, etc.
I think it might be a long time before it gets fleshed out any more than it has been. It seems that Paizo's more interested in a whole lot of other places right now. Which is understandable, but not particularly helpful for answering this particular question.
Shame. In a way I'd prefer a slowly expanding circle of knowledge about the realms of Golarion. But given how little we currently know about many Inner Sea nations (Molthune, Galt, Nimrathas etc...)...
yeah Southern Garund sounds "far away". It would be fun if Paizo actually claimed some areas as "won't ever cover that" and left them for the individual GMs to develop^^
If you think of Garund as Africa, a continent of untold natural riches (mineral and otherwise) and Sargava acts as its main port, then it stands to reason that there'd be an IMMENSE amount of of shipping and trade going to and fro. Even with their agreement, the pirates could plunder 10% of ships and Sargava would still have a thriving lucrative trade route. Besides, I didn't see any indication that the agreement covers ship destined for Sargava, just ships headed North.
If you think of Garund as Africa, a continent of untold natural riches (mineral and otherwise) and Sargava acts as its main port, then it stands to reason that there'd be an IMMENSE amount of of shipping and trade going to and fro.
Too bad Eleder is not located on a major trade route like a river (needed for transfering major amounts of goods) , but is the only major deepwater port in Sargava
And given its very low trading limit, there seem to be something lacking in the whole design.Honestly as a GM , I'd feel free to rearrange the whole economic situation in Southern Garund^^
Good point about Eleder, Vikingson... looking at the population, it's just barely at 9,000. Not exactly the vibrant trade capital I was making it out to be.
I agree, anyone GMing this path should probably get a little creative with the local economics.
So if southern Garund has suitable trading partners, it explains why the pirates of the shackles can have a deal with Eleder and still make a living. This was what my initial thinking leads me to.
Sargava is an isolated ex-colony, who could be devastated by the Shackles. So the agreement protects their shipping and serves as a guard against their former masters (at a crippling cost) To the pirates Sargava is a minor part of their possible targets, so giving it up in exchanges for a steady income is not too much of a sacrifice.