Hey everybody,
Rise of the Runelords is my group's first Pathfinder campaign - I still have a lot to learn as a GM, but we're overall having a really great time with it. We just wrapped up the battle at Thistletop, and then we've got a couple of side stories we're going to fool around with in Sandpoint before continuing into The Skinsaw Murders. Where I need help comes in... practically at the first page.
"It's Foxglove."
"...Do you want to check out the murder scene firs--"
"No. It's Foxglove. Where do we kill him?"
We had a lot of fun with Foxglove in Sandpoint. My players still chuckle about it when they thumb through the NPC Face Cards. Once they learn that the killer is obsessed with a PC, I don't see any reason they'd think of anyone else.
So what should my move from here be? Go as written, and let the characters do what they will? Did anyone else have players figure it out almost immediately? Or maybe I'm giving my guys too much credit.
Should I remove the note portion, or wait to reveal it further down the line? Maybe Hemlock is for some reason reluctant to hand it over right away? Or Foxglove delivers it personally during the night, nailing it to the PC's door?
Thank you so much for any insight and advice. This forum has been an invaluable resource since day one.
I had the *exact* same fears in my campaign, and you can even check out the Skinsaw Murders GM thread to see our conversations on it. To summarize, the other GMs said, "Don't worry about it. You'd be surprised how hard PCs find it to finger Foxglove. The fact that it isn't an issue that comes up on this thread speaks volumes."
Sure enough, my highly-intelligent, roleplay-heavy group didn't suspect Foxglove for quite a while, and when they found out, it was classic.
So trust your players to make other assumptions. Just make sure you keep a poker face. My very first player said, "Hey, maybe it's Foxglove!", but I'd played him as such as a feeb and a cad that they all laughed at the suggestion, and didn't suspect him again until the evidence was obvious and they were *supposed* to come to the conclusion.
Good luck!
P.S. If you're bored, go through my thread and find the bit on Foxglove. My recollection was that it wasn't more than a couple of sessions, and it really came out well.
Yeah this is exactly where we are at my my game as well.
The second they read "your lordship" it was "It's that creepy Foxglove guy".
Unfortunately hiding the foxglove manor would be difficult as I have given one of the players a map of the Hinterlands already a long time ago after he found there was a map store in town and payed for one.
Not sure how I will handle it just yet.
Thanks for the advice and thoughts, everyone. Game night is Sunday - we'll see how it goes!
Hey everybody,
Rise of the Runelords is my group's first Pathfinder campaign - I still have a lot to learn as a GM, but we're overall having a really great time with it. We just wrapped up the battle at Thistletop, and then we've got a couple of side stories we're going to fool around with in Sandpoint before continuing into The Skinsaw Murders. Where I need help comes in... practically at the first page.
** spoiler omitted **
Thank you so much for any insight and advice. This forum has been an invaluable resource since day one.
It would seem like the key to not having foxglove be the one suspected would be to play up other NPC's as potential red herrings or at the very least make them a dynamic and memorable presence in your game, something I think the 'Heros of Sandpoint' side quests give a good opportunity to do. The less Foxglove stands out from the crowd the less likely most PC's will be to immediately suspect him.
This is after your game, but in case there's still time: Even if a character "just knows" it's Aldern, in order for that character to remain good aligned, they would need to find proof. "I just know it's him" is not a valid reason to go on a murder spree, certainly for upstanding citizens. Hopefully your party is "good", otherwise this won't be of much help.
The sheriff would definitely want proof, or feel compelled to stand in the PCs' way until proof is secured. Additionally, this is a noble we're talking about. Maybe the Scarnettis have a vested interest in protecting Aldern. They need not even be directly involved in the cult stuff - a business agreement with some obscure sub-organization of the Brothers of Seven could require they help with dirty work, no questions asked, and that could be part of it.
It's also not that big of a deal because Aldern pretty much waits at Misgivings. Unless the PCs uncannily set a trap at a place where the AP has him go, they're not likely to just run into him.
As a final note: It would indeed be a disappointment to lose the shock factor, but consider the experience of watching a movie: even if you know who the bad guy is, the reveal can still be just as fun. Validation and all that.
In my campaign, I had the characters arriving in Sandpoint as guards on a small wagon train to get them some pre-adventure exp points. On the way to Sandpoint, they were attacked by bandits (linked to the Sczarni) and managed to fight them off. The survivors were tracked back to their base and I made sure that some were captured.
One captured bandit was a young lad from Sandpoint who was a small-time punk who had fallen in with the wrong crowd and become a bandit. When he was hanged for banditry on the day after the festival, the older brother swore vengeance on the party - specifically the one who would become the obsession of Aldern.
So, within hours of arriving in Sandpoint, they had become the target of the older brother who kept trying to kill/maim or generally mess them up, and the local Sczarni i.e. Jubrayl. I played Jubrayl as sneering and sarcastic who used to regularly suggest that they were getting 'cocky' and 'lordly' and used to call the character 'your ladyship' as an insult. When the 'your lordship' note appeared, they automatically assumed it was Jubrayl and then later assumed it was the brother!
Oh, and I made the Sandpoint hangman one of the Skinsaw victims just to confuse matters further!
If Foxglove seemed a real twit when they dealt with him, they're likely to dismiss him as a suspect. If he seemed like more than comic relief, they may think he's the one.
If you think that they'll go straight for him, play down the "murderous obsession" angle, delaying any clear messages from Skinsaw until after the players start to form their own plans for investigating.
Earlier today I had an idea about this issue, but I just realized that age could be an issue. Anyway, Belven Valdemar is a "handsome and quite available bachelor". I was thinking of having him woo the future target of the Skinsaw Man. It is most likely that this would happen after the target becomes a well-known hero, but isn't necessarily required (such as if the target is particularly attractive and/or of noble lineage). Since Belven is too much of a workaholic to pay attention to the ladies, I see two main options:
- A relative or friend of Belven tries to set him up with the PC. In my mind, I saw Ethram (Belven's father) asking for the PC's time but cunningly getting someone to send Belven to fetch him at the right moment. Ethram excuses himself while suggesting that Belven take his place or show the PC around. Ethram would like to see his son happy before he finally succumbs to his persistent lung infection, after all.
- Belven and the PC wind up at the same location for whatever reason (e.g., the PC is invited to the theatre and happens upon Belven during an intermission or after the play). For whatever reason, Belven is quite taken by the PCs beauty and/or personality and, for the first time in his life, decides to pursue a woman.
Of course, Belven may be ignoring the ladies all this time because he's not interested in ladies. In that case, the second option is still good as it is. For the first option above, Sir Jasper or Cyrdak could be the match-making friend (or some other close friend who knows/suspects Belven's interest in men).
During the time of the Skinsaw Murders in Sandpoint, Belven could be away in Magnimar on business. The fact that Belven is a noble and was/is interested in the PC may be just enough to distract the party from outright suspecting Aldern. Hopefully the PC is ready to be pursued this much, though :o)
Now, for that age thing I mentioned: Belven is the oldest son of the only original member of the Sandpoint Mercantile League who is still alive (Ethram). That could make him relatively old (40+). However, this can be adjusted. Without getting too ridiculous we can say that Ethram was a gifted young man who took over his family's affairs around the age of 20, and he didn't get around to pumping out offspring until his... 40s. That would make Ethram about 60 and Belven around 20. I think I would choose to make him 30, depending on the target PCs age.