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How do you all decide how much weight an animal companion can carry while retaining its ability to fly.
Arguements I have had directed at me:
1) Flight is the inherent movement form of creature X, therefore it should be able to carry up to its maximum load. Encumbrance just penalizes Armor Check Penalty for Fly skill
2) The Fly spell says "The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load)." so reduce movement by 1/3 if over Light Encumbrance.
3) In the armor section of the Core Rule Book, you can find this statement, "Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding." implying you cannot fly in heavy or medium loads. (I generally waive this argument because it makes the least sense to me).
If there is some specific ruling on this for PFS you are aware of, please, please please link!!
Contributor
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Just RAW, I'd say that the difference is that the Fly spell lets you do X (have a medium/heavy load while flying through magic), while a flying mount can do Y (only fly with a light load), unless they too are given a fly spell, in which case it goes back to X.
I don't see a conflict in rules here, personally :)
See, this is why I was hoping Mike Brock would weigh in :/
Wiggling her fingers dangerously, Arizhel casts, "Summon Brock".
As the smoke clears, hope remains.
Welcome to the Schrödinger's cat of my PFS questions! If I never look, will the question have been definitively answered here?
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When I read the subject of the thread, I was hoping the first answer would be "with an iron fist!"
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Like armor, a character's load affects his maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, carries a check penalty (which works like an armor check penalty), reduces the character's speed, and affects how fast the character can run, as shown on Table: Encumbrance Effects. A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.
Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding.
So there we go. Can't fly in medium or heavy armor, and a medium or heavy load counts as equivalent armor for purposes of such restrictions.
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If you look at a 25 STR Fighter's carry capacity, you'll note that Full Plate easily falls into the Light Load even though it is Heavy Armor.
Therefor you cannot equate heavy armor to heavy load in restrictions on flying.
If your AC was in heavy armor, no flying per the Barding rules.
If your AC had a heavy load, its fly speed would be reduced accordingly, and its fly check would carry the appropriate ACP for carrying a heavy load.
Other than that, there are no rules for what a flying creature can carry and still fly. So assume they can fly up to their heavy load maximum.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Jiggy, that only applies to a flying mount. If you're not mounted on the flyer, it should be able to fly despite a heavy load.
Fair point. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find anything similarly explicit for non-mounts. Which I guess leaves us with the standard effects of a medium/heavy load: a reduction in speed and an ACP to physical skills (such as Fly) and a max DEX bonus to AC.
Though it seems a little weird to think that if I'm sitting on my medium-load flying mount, he can't take off... until I die and become an object tied to the saddle, at which point he can fly just fine (albeit at reduced speed).
Hrm...
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If you look at a 25 STR Fighter's carry capacity, you'll note that Full Plate easily falls into the Light Load even though it is Heavy Armor.What does this example have to do with anything? The situation you describe is unrelated to the rule I bolded in my post, above.
Therefor you cannot equate heavy armor to heavy load in restrictions on flying.But you can equate heavy load to heavy armor, which is what the rule says we must do.
What, precisely, do you think the rule I bolded above actually means? What does following it entail, as you understand it? In what situation does it apply?
Dude, chill a second. You ninja'd me. You made a good catch on a rule I didn't see.
If you hadn't posted the rule you found, then my post is entirely relevant.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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A flying mount can only fly if wearing light or no armor and carrying no more than a light load.
A flying non-mount creature seems to be able to fly while carrying a medium/heavy load, with speed/ACP/AC adjusted as appropriate. But I'm not convinced that's intended.
Also, it's Tuesday.
A flying non-mount creature seems to be able to fly while carrying a medium/heavy load, with speed/ACP/AC adjusted as appropriate. But I'm not convinced that's intended.
I think it's intended. We have summoned air elementals to carry party members up walls, etc... I'm pretty sure air elementals wouldn't have problems with flying with a medium load (however, movement speed will be diminished)
It's the difference between flying with wings, versus flying magically. A pegasus has to flap its wings, and having all that stuff on (whether armor or saddlebags) makes it too hard to do that. An air elemental... well, it's just *air*, man! It can fly like you and I can walk. (i.e. while carrying up to its maximum load).
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Hypotheitical table conversation:
Summoner: "Ugh, a crevasse. I hate chasms of all classifications, even canyons. They all seem to start with the letter C, which equally shares my wrath, except for cookies and conjuration! I summon a couple Large Air Elementals to carry us across for I also hate Climb Checks!"
GM: Lets see... Large Air Elemental . . . Str 18, Dex 25, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11. Quick consult of the tables. . . light load for 18 str is 100lbs or less. . . We have a dwarven cleric.. . nope. Starting weight is over 100. Human Wizard. . Nope, starting weight over 100. Well, looks like that gnome can get carried across anyway. "Well, you see, under Armor, I have this sentence. "Flying Mounts Cannot Wear Medium or Heavy Armor". Then, under Encumbrance I have this one . . "A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor."
"Together they read that your Large Air Elementals (or Dire Bats) cannot carry you across. You are using them for a mount."
Summoner: "But wait! Just twenty minutes ago we had the Epic Battle with the Air Elementals! They used turned itself into a whirlwind, and I quote:
'Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster's HD + the monster's Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful.'
The Large Elemental carried out Massively obese 274 lbs. half orc bloatmage wearing full plate, and packing 3 great swords and 10 large tents 100 feet straight up into the air, and then dropped him! We are still washing lymph out of our gear and clothing 3 days later from his massive explosion as he hit the ground! WTF!?!?!"
GM: "Well you see, the attack is only limited by size, but . . you are trying to use it as a mount. . . so although normally it can carry you to any given height, because you are using it for this other purpose. . . Oh, I give up."
So aside from the coupling of:
Like armor, a character's load affects his maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, carries a check penalty (which works like an armor check penalty), reduces the character's speed, and affects how fast the character can run, as shown on Table: Encumbrance Effects. A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.
And
Flying mounts can't fly in medium or heavy barding.
nothing else exists to the best of the boards wisdom?
In that case I am going to stand by this since it is the only RAW answer I can put a finger on.