Can alter winds and control winds be combined?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Alter winds says, it only affects natural winds, but control winds has no such limitation. So if a 10th level druid were to cast alter winds, to increase a strong wind (which shouldn't be too uncommon) to severe wind, could he then use this severe wind as a basis to reach a tornado force wind under his control via control winds? If yes, this seems a pretty powerful combination.


I would think that the answer to your question is no, since alter winds says you can't alter magical winds, I think it wouldn't work with control winds.

The combo you're looking for is possible, but it requires Control Weather (level 7 spell) and Control Winds (5th level spell). Control weather lasts basically 1 to 3 days so once you cast it, you only need control winds to quickly whip up a tornado or hurricane. This works since control Winds does not have the same "non-magical winds only" criteria. This requires a 13th level Druid though, so it's not available until later in the game.

That said, even then, this is an insanely powerful combo, as long as you don't mind a little collateral damage. Unless you're on the open seas, or in a plain, expect that you'll uproot trees, knock down buildings, send horses flying, and just generally wreak havoc.


Even if your GM ruled that it did work, it would be extremely impractical to make work given the 1 minute (!) casting time of Alter Winds and its laughably small area.

I've heard of some GMs ruling that control winds would stack with itself, though, but I'm not sure I'd allow that at my table.


I am the GM and my Sylvan Elemental(Air)Sorcerer asked if he could learn control winds even though it is not normaly on his spell list. Since it fits very well thematically, I will probably allow it.
I just want to be ready to make a ruling, when he comes up with the alter + control combination sooner or later.
It seems rather situational, since he would need a strong wind to do it and quite a long time, therefore I am torn if I shlould allow it or not. Control winds wil definitely NOT stack with itself at my table, having an all-obliterating tornado at your command as a tenth level character for the cost of two level 5 slots is way too much.
Control weather and control winds in combination are fine because of the higher level and the onset period for control weather.

And I am aware that alter winds says that it doesn't work on magical winds, but if one were to cast alter winds first on a natural wind and THEN control that wind via control winds, which does not state that the controlled wind has to be non-magical, by RAW a compelling argument could be made for it to work. I just wanted a few opinions on the matter before I have to make my ruling. The player will accept any ruling I make, I just want to avoid being unfair to him.


Kalridian wrote:
...having an all-obliterating tornado at your command as a tenth level character for the cost of two level 5 slots is way too much.

Just a minor side note, Control Winds has this: 'Each round on your turn, a creature in the wind must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effect of being in the windy area.'

I've understood that to mean if they beat the fortitude save (on a per-round basis), it doesn't matter if they are in the middle of a tornado, they're not affected by it. Now, your Sorc may have good save DC's, but it does at least give the enemies an out.

As for Alter+Control, a 10-foot radius with Alter doesn't allow a whole lot for Control Winds to work with, imo. I can't really see it as viable.

Though the idea of a 20-foot sphere of tornado-strength wind now sounds absolutely awesome.

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