Many Hands holding Bows


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

Let's say a synthesist Summoner at level 12 has 6 pairs of hands. Each pair of hands holds a bow. The summoner has multiweapon fighting.

With one bow, let's assume Summoner would attack at +20/+15 (Full BAB/Iterative BAB)

What are we looking at here?

+18/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+!3 (Full BAB/Iterative BAB/Off hand bow/Offhandbow/Offhandbow/Offhandbow)

If we add Rapidshot to the mix, is that +16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+11/+11/+11 (Full BAB/Rapid Shot/Iterative BABA/Offhand/Offhand/Offhand/Offhand/Offhand)?


with rapid shot-
+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+9

without rapid shot
+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11

You take -4 penalties since you aren't using light offhand weapons.

Shadow Lodge

Good call on the -4 penalties. However, why are a majority of the attacks at full BAB?

Multiweapon fighting states: (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.)


First a minor point, BAB doesn't change, only your attack bonous changes(hence BASE attack bonous).

Anyway to answer your question - the simple answer is because they aren't iteratives, they are offhands. Iterative attacks come from level with each one with a consecutive -5 to attack bonous. The attacks you are getting are because you have a ton of arms.

Consider this senario - if you have two weapon fighting and were using two longswords, your attacks would be +16 (mainhand) /+16 (offhand) /+11 (Mainhand iterative). Multiattack is similiar to two-weapon fighting but expanded to your other arms. Note that there is no such thing as 'improved' and 'greater' multiattack like there is with two weapon fighting (improved and greater two weapon fighting basically grant the equivilent of iteratives on an offhand).

Without multiattack you could still use all those weapons but with a -6 penalty on the first attack and -10 to the others.


Dot.

Grand Lodge

Multiattack is not Multiweapon Fighting.

They effect different things.

Dark Archive

Broken Zenith wrote:
Let's say a synthesist Summoner at level 12 has 6 pairs of hands. Each pair of hands holds a bow.

I would like to stop you right there and make sure this is just a thought experiment. You're not considering actually playing something this obnoxious, right?

Shadow Lodge

@ Mergy - I'm not, but the question is rules, not play style. Let's not get derailed by the "overpowered=not fun" argument.

Interesting. Any other idea.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Multiattack is not Multiweapon Fighting.

They effect different things.

This is correct of course, in my reply I was using 'multiattack' when it should have been 'multiweapon fighting'. The original post mentioned multiweapon fighting and I just made a mistake in my reply. Otherwise the information should be correct.

Multiattack only effects natural attacks and reduces the penalty to -2 for secondary attacks. The Eidolon gets this by default.

Multiweapon fighting is two-weapon fighting expanded to additional arms.

Shadow Lodge

So the gist is this:

A Character has 6 bows and mutiweapon attack. His normal, one bow attack would be +20/+15.

Attacking with all 6 bows, he gets all 6 bows on the first iterative, his mainhand bow gets one attack on the second iterative. All attacks suffer a -4 penalty, due to the fact that they are a not light weapons.

+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11.

Rapid shot would add one more at the highest iterative (but subtract 2 from all attacks).

Manyshot would provide the first shot only with 2 arrows.

Do we all agree?


Yep.

Huurrrrrry! Windwall and fickel winds everywhere! The beast is coming


Don't forget to cast Haste on yourself.

Shadow Lodge

Yup! Haste would boost it up to a loverly +17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+12. Yum!

I'm off to theorycraft myself a synthesist! Synthesists can wear boots of haste like any other - right?


Broken Zenith wrote:

Yup! Haste would boost it up to a loverly +17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+12. Yum!

I'm off to theorycraft myself a synthesist! Synthesists can wear boots of haste like any other - right?

You doubled the number of attacks. Haste gives you 1.

Shadow Lodge

Whoops. Dur.


+17/+17/+17/+17/+1/+17/+17/+12

Yowza...

I prefer just using my Alchemist2/Fighter18:

BAB: 19

Feats: TWF Line, Generic Archery Feats.

+15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0

Given to do this I would need around +5 or higher DEX Bonus:

+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5

That isn't counting in Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization Lines of Feats or any other way of increasing my Attack Bonus.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:

+17/+17/+17/+17/+1/+17/+17/+12

Yowza...

I prefer just using my Alchemist2/Fighter18:

BAB: 19

Feats: TWF Line, Generic Archery Feats.

+15/+15/+10/+10/+5/+5/+0

Given to do this I would need around +5 or higher DEX Bonus:

+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5

That isn't counting in Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization Lines of Feats or any other way of increasing my Attack Bonus.

Problem is, the +17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+17/+12 eidolon is a 12th level char.

Lantern Lodge

*Reads thread..... @_@!!!!

Is this yet another reason why the Synthesist Summoner was ban from PFS?

Shadow Lodge

I'll make a character and post it for reference. Fighters get way more feats though (and, for example, weapon proficiency).

Eidolons get good attributes at higher levels, and can increase in size/AC. And arms.

Yeah, Eidolons have it good.


But are easily negated... Well if you are smart.

Shadow Lodge

Done and pretty underwhelmed. We've got low attack bonuses, unfortunately. At level 12, we've got +14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+9, dealing d8+6 on each attack.

Archer Synthesist

We do have great AC, HP, and initiative though. Level 12 AC is 32, HP is 132 and initiative is +14. So hopefully we can shoot them flat footed.


Isn't it supposed to be Mow Down not Move Down & Monkey not Money?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Secane wrote:

*Reads thread..... @_@!!!!

Is this yet another reason why the Synthesist Summoner was ban from PFS?

It wasn't relevant in PFS, because they banned Bestiary feats (ie Multiweapon fighting) since the release of the bestiary.


I really don't see the big allure of archery when you can just get pounce and flight super easily anyway, honestly...


Someone has to provide Fire Support for the Charging Martials.

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