Sheilds don't add armor either.
No.
The enhancement bonus on the shield applies to the shield bonus to armor class granted by the shield. When you loose shield (because its not between you and your gizzards anymore, it IS your gizzards) you loose the entire thing.
To keep your AC up while in wildshape, I suggest barding. Its cheaper than getting the ridiculously expensive +3 wild enhancement.
yet a ring of protection will continue to work correct? Thats the way I read it if its a constant effect it works. Thats why I dont understand why the additional protection wouldnt apply.
Ring works because it is a continuous item that isn't dependent upon it's shape. The "+" in armor is more like reinforcing the structure whereas Bracers, Stat boosting items, etc are magic independent of form. At least that's now I see it.
It has to do with the Polymorph rules, which govern Wild Shape.
Armor and Shield bonuses aren't magical, while Enhancements of those bonuses are. It can be inferred that Non-magical bonuses 'cease' because the gear which grants them no longer exists while you are in a polymorphed form. However, adding the Wild enchantment to a shield or armor makes its armor bonus the equivalent of "magical" for the purposes of maintaining them. Note that Bracers of Armor grant an Armor Bonus, not an Enhancement to, which is why they would not work while in Wildshape, and is also why they do not stack with your Armor.
The relevant passage:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.
Which is why they created the Wild Enchantment, which is expensive, because it is a +3 bonus armor effect, which means that you need to also have a plain +1 Enhancement bonus to Armor or Shield AC in order to get it. So a +1 Dragonhide Plate Armor is a +4 suit of armor. The cost is 300g for MW plus 3000g for Dragonhide plus 16,000g for the +4 Enhancement bonus. 19,300g for a suit of +1 armor that can be worn by Druids so that they don't break their oath is.. a bit much :P
I like BigNorseWolf's Barding suggestion. You'd get a full +4 enhancement bonus for the roughly the same price.
so a ring or an amulet or a belt would work just fine..but because its a shield it wont apply?
as long as it's a continuous effect, yes.
armor and shield bonuses are magical..you have to have a +2 added to the item.
It's in the polymorph rules.
armor and shield bonuses are magical..you have to have a +2 added to the item.
Ah, a non-Magical Large Wooden Shield grants you a +2 Shield Bonus. Shield and Armor bonuses are not magical bonuses. If you have a +2 Enhancement bonus to your Large Wooden Shield, the +2 Enhancement is Magical, but the +2 base non-Magical Shield bonus is not. And so when you polymorph, you lose your shield bonus from your shield, which means that you have no Shield bonus to Enhance, and so you lose that +2 Enhancement as well.
Conversely, Polymorph specifically only calls out the non-magical AC bonus types granted from Worn equipment, allowing Deflection, Natural, and others to continue to function, because they are either You, or are magical. You can always put on non-magical armor after you polymorph, as BigNorseWolf suggested, or you can have someone grant you a magical Armor or Shield bonus via a Mage Armor or Shield spell.
For example, if you made a custom magical item, say Bracers of Deflection +3. Those worn bracers are granting you a Deflection bonus, which is a magical force effect. It would work.
that makes no sense to me at all. So the enchantment is dependent on what item it is put on. I get that say chainmail which I think gives 5 armor wont apply when you shift. but chainmail +1 I would think would transfer over the +1 when you shift since thats the magical enhancement on the item.
It's magic.
that makes no sense to me at all. So the enchantment is dependent on what item it is put on. I get that say chainmail which I think gives 5 armor wont apply when you shift. but chainmail +1 I would think would transfer over the +1 when you shift since thats the magical enhancement on the item.
I just wanted to clarify that there are Basic Bonuses to AC, and then Enhancements to those Basic Bonuses to AC.
Take Natural Armor, you have a Natural Armor Bonus from Beastshape I. And then you have Barkskin, which grants a scaling Enhancement TO Natural Armor. Those Enhancements to <target> may not be you, which means that if the Base bonus doesn't exist, neither can the thing that enhances it.
that makes no sense either...since its not a shield you lose the +2 magical enhancement...ok when you shift its no longer a ring..its no longer an amulet no longer a belt, it becomes part of you, melds in your body. Yet those magical enchantments continue to work.
The difference is that a Ring of Deflection is 1) Magical, and 2) Enhances you directly. Pathfinder is basically saying that these two conditions must be met in order for the bonuses to carry over to your Polymorphed form.
Normally: +2 Enhancement to Shield --> +2 Shield Bonus = +4 Shield bonus.
Polymorphed: +2 Enhancement to Shield --> +N/A Shield Bonus = 0 Shield Bonus.
N/A is not the same as 0, N/A means does not exist. You cannot enhance something that does not exist.
However, the Wild enchant specifically does this:
+2 Enhancement to Shield --> +2 "Wild" Shield Bonus (it is now magical and enhances you directly) = +4 Shield bonus while polymorphed.
so since the shield doesnt exist when you shift it cant have an enchantment...but an amulet and ring also merge and are no longer a ring and amulet but the enchantment stands. That correct?
Enhacement
EnchantmentMagical gear retains its EnChantment while you are polymorphed. If that EnChantment EnHances your Gear, and not you directly, then the bonus does not apply to you.
Getting a Wild enchantment on your Armor or Shield makes the Armor Bonus magical, and that Armor Bonus EnHances you directly (notice its not an EnHancement to Armor Bonus) :P Got a headache yet?
Boil it down to this:
Step 1) Is the item granting you a Magical Bonus to your AC? No? Then Stop: Bonus doesn't carry over when Polymorphed. Yes? Then got to Step 2.
Step 2) Is the item granting its bonus directly to YOU? No? Then Stop: Bonus doesn't carry over when Polymorphed. Yes? Then the bonus carries over when you're Polymorphed.
the ring and amulet would be N/A as well the way the polymorph reads.
Ah, Polymorph specifically makes a logical distinction between Magical and non-Magical bonuses to AC. Please read the passage again, you will see that it says exactly what I'm explaining.
You are saying the same thing over and over, but the fact is that RAW, no you do not. I'm sorry to say. It is in part for balance reasons(to answer one of your above 'why...' requests), since the wild shape forms give you the boost to natural armor in them which is to help offset the loss of armor/shield bonus.
I get a buckler..go to a mage to get a +2 enchantment on it..its magical.
Aight, I'm not sure if you're trying to read this rule in a way that favors your character, or if you're trying to understand how the rule works.
I think this is what you're not seeing :) --
A +2 EnHancement bonus TO Shield AC, enhances your Shield's AC bonus, not you. Shield AC bonuses are NEVER magical, unless explicitly granted by a magical source, say the Shield Spell, which grants a magical +2 Shield bonus to AC, or the Wild Enchant, which grants a +X "Wild" Shield bonus to AC. The base "Shield Bonus" is not magical if it is granted from a normal Shield, even if that bonus is EnHanced. Why? Because the EnHancement bonus is granted to the Shield, not you. If you're polymorphed, your shield no longer exists, and it takes its EnHancement bonus with it.
A +1 Ring of Deflection grants a Magical Bonus, which Enhances YOU directly :P Sorry for all of the caps, I just want to emphasize what is happening.
You're not arguing with me, you're railing against a rule which Paizo created. I'm seriously only trying to help you understand what they've done ;)
I get a buckler..go to a mage to get a +2 enchantment on it..its magical.
Ah! Here's your sticking point, and it has to do with Different Bonus Types. Same bonuses, even from Different sources, on the Same target Do Not Stack.
Which is why a +2 Enhancement bonus To Shield AC is a different bonus, with a different target than a +2 Shield Bonus from a non-magical shield. The EnHancement bonus TO the Shield is Magical, but it does NOT change the non-Magical Shield bonus to a Magical Shield bonus. They are 2 different bonus types.
I hope that helps.
EDIT: Mistake
so you would still not get the +2 magical enchantment when shifted?
You're getting closer :P
If the non-Magical Shield bonus is somehow changed to a Magical Shield bonus, then it would follow the logic from above. The "Wild" EnChant changes it to a magical Wild Shield Bonus. Now any Enhancement bonuses to Shield AC would carry over while you are polymorphed.
Why?
Here's the example again:
+2 Enhancement to Shield AC --> +2 non-magical Shield AC = Does not carry over, because the Shield AC is non-magical.
+2 Enhancement to Shield AC --> +2 "Wild" Shield AC (is now magical) = Carries over.
You cannot have a +2 EnHancement to Nothing. Again, N/A does not mean 0.
+2 Enhancement to Shield AC --> +2 non-magical Shield AC = Does not carry over, because the Shield AC is non-magical.
so when you get a +2 enchantement to a buckler its not a magical enchantment? You have to take it to a caster to get it done.
The EnHancement bonus itself is magical. But the non-Magical Buckler AC is not. So you have a +2 Magical Bonus to the Shield. Not to you. Polymorph is saying that your (non-Magical) Armor and Shield bonuses cease to function, because the armor and shield No Longer Exist. If your Shield (and its non-Magical Shield bonus) no longer exist, how can that shield grant you a bonus?
I think you just need some time with this concept, and I'm sorry that this doesn't suit your objectives.
If you're polymorphing into something with Hands, that can hold your shield after you've transformed, then its effectively Barding. The Shield would still exist, and so would any enhancements to it (because you were smart and put it down before polymorphing). But sadly, most polymorphic forms are Animals or Elementals who don't have hands :P and so the best they can do is put on specifically crafted Armor for that form, and they would not have the means to hold a shield.
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Let me try a slightly different explanation.
When you get your shield enchanted, that enchantment makes it magically better at being a shield.
A shield cannot act as a shield when it is merged into you in wild shape. It does not matter that it's magically good at being a shield, because it can only act as a shield when it's physically intact and wielded on your arm.
It's like having a Ring of Swimming in the desert. It doesn't matter that you're magically better at swimming when it is physically impossible for you to swim in that environment.
Armour and shields work by positioning themselves between the wearer / wielder and attacks. When they are melded into a druid, it is physically impossible for them to position themselves between the druid and the attack. It doesn't matter that they're magically good at standing between you and attack, when they're melded into you they physically cannot do that. The magic depends on the items physically being in the appropriate shape and correctly wielded.
The amulet of natural armour works by directly making your skin or hide thicker. It can still do that when the physical amulet is melded into the druid, because the magic doesn't depend on the amulet being an amulet. Same thing by the deflection field created by the ring of protection.
Does that make sense?
Armor and shield bonuses enhance the items, not you.
Other items enhance you directly. Ring of Protection.
The magic on the armor and shield are both still "active" when polymorphed. However, both are merged with your body. Your body is still enhanced by the ring (remember all magic remains active) however, the shield is no longer between you and the bad guy so it's effectively non-functional (same for armor). The ring never needed to be between you and the bad guy to function, but the shield does.
Hope that helps.