Goblin Squad Member
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I hate how in pretty much every mmo you get mounts, but you can't fight on them. Fighting from the back of a mount is something that happens in fantasy and it happened in reality.
I'm not sure how to effectively model it though. In my opinion Mount & Blade has the best mounted combat out there, but I'm not sure how viable that model would be in an MMO like PFO. The is also the issue of GW wants to make formation combat viable, but Mount & Blade was actually pretty terrible at formation fighting. At the other end of the spectrum what I don't want to see is mounted combat the works exactly like combat in the few games I seen try it, which is exactly the same as normal combat, just standing there swinging your sword at the other guy, but your character is sitting on the back of the horse.
Obviously, we don't want to make it over powered so that it is the only viable combat model. The obvious advantage of mounted combat is forward momentum, speed, and elevation. The less obvious weaknesses are very slow backward movement, slow turning, and the mount itself is generally pretty vulnerable.
Maybe a mounted combat skill tree would help. I don't know.
Ideas anyone?
Would love to see it. No clue if its possible though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd be interested to see it done, but it's not really a priority for me. While it is clearly a staple of historic and fantasy combat, the resources spent to add it may not be worth the value it brings to the game. Not to mention the most terrifying aspect of Heavy Calvary, the massed charge, is surprisingly vulnerable to a few fireballs. Horses and Knights in heavy armor tend to have pretty terrible reflex saves, and they are so close together when they are riding you down like that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mounted combat is a big deal. I think the best way to do it is set it up so that mounted combat rules wide open areas when not facing opponents with weapons that have the "brace" ability head on. But on rough terrain and enclosed spaces make it less powerful.
I think the key to this is making mounted combat rely heavily on fast movement, and make it difficult to make sharp turns. Mounted archers should be less accurate/powerful than unmounted archers as well so their main draw is speed.
Riding dogs will be able to turn sharper of course, making them slightly more useful in enclosed areas and rough terrain... but they are also a lot slower than horses. A barbarian can actually out-pace an armored riding dog.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mounted combat has to be really well balanced in the world setting if they add it. Including ways to kill the mount, dismount the rider and avoid the dreaded AM Barbarian Charge. Avoiding the charge isn't hard in the tabletop game, so shouldn't be hard in the mmo. Hop into difficult terrain and laugh at the AM barbarian, problem solved. If they end up incorporating the ability to teach your mount dragon-style/etc to bypass difficult terrain than it might become problematic.
However if there are going to be flying mounts it becomes a bigger issue. I doubt anyone wants to contend with a group of bandits that fly in, charge/lance/pounce, loot your husk, and fly off. Having that in the game would be a very bad idea.
Properly implemented though it could become a very fun element. Bandits (PCs) who favor charging on heavy horse would be limited to open plains, so certain areas of clear land might become their hangouts. These would become widely known as bandit areas which could add a lot of flavor. It also opens up the possibility for jousting as a sport, tournaments, etc.
Really cool ideas and observations.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Having mount but being force dismounted for combat because mounted combat doesn't exist bothers me so much that I would rather mounts not be added at all until mounted combat can also be added.
Agreed. I would rather just have pack mules and slow moving carts than mounts that can't be used in combat.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes and no. From an immersion standpoint not having mounted combat would be bothersome, however it's an element of immersion that can be added later, so long as it's added correctly. (See above comments on balance!)
From a gameplay standpoint walking everywhere will get very tedious very quickly.
Gameplay > immersion for customer retention.
I'd get use to the idea of mounts being non-combative and if they do add mounted combat hopefully they take the time to do it right.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You have to keep in mind this game is not quest based. There are no errand boy quests that send you all over the map to chat with NPCs, or if there are, then they aren't really needed. Most players will likely live out of small regions for extended periods of time like in EVE, Darkfall, Wurm, Mortal, Xsyon.... most of the sandboxes out there.
Because of this, mounts are actually very non-essential. As long as we have ways to move large quantities of goods we can get along without them until mounted combat is ready.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yep, travelling long distances will be a big deal in this game, something you plan and prepare for. The game probably won't even start with much in the way of roads so mounts wouldn't exactly be all that practical. Mounts are an excellent feature to add when the expansion of community content finally starts to stall because of limitations in transportation speed. And mounted combat would make an excellent counter for the enhanced transportation speed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Adding mounted combat later would also be an ideal excuse too add in the Cavalier skill tree too. A mounted class to go with mounts and mounted combat would be great.
Downside is Paladins end up losing out on their divine mount until mounts and mounted combat are released.
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I'm assuming it will take awhile to train up to that bonus anyway. 1st level paladins don't get divine mounts in the P&P so I doubt they would in PFO either.
It may very will be by the time paladins should be getting divine mounts, mounted combat will be being released.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mounted combat would be fantastic in an MMO with formations, though I understand that it is difficult to implement. The only game I have played with mounted combat is Mount and Blade, and I guess that it took so much of the developer's resources that the game was basically just about that one thing.
At the height of mounted combat in Europe in the high medieval period, the heavy cavalry charge dominated the battlefield and was the determining factor in almost every other tactic used. In the Crusades, particularly the first crusade, units of heavy cavalry regularly routed enemy forces 10 times their size.
In the march to battle knights did not ride their warhorses, but rather horses called palfreys, and each knight might have two or three palfreys, a few mounted squires and men-at-arms. In a sense a knight wasn't just a knight, he was a whole fighting squad. His weapons and armor were items that only the wealthy could afford, and his warhorse... warhorses were the Lamborghini or Leer Jet of the Middle Ages: fantastically, epic-ly expensive, not just to buy, but also to train and maintain.
"My kingdom for a horse!" has a slightly different ring to it with those facts in mind.