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Okay, let's say you have a belt, and let's say this belt, gives you +4 to str and con. Then let's say that this guy with this belt is fighting a cleric. THEN let's say that this cleric casts dispel magic on this guy's belt and succeeds. Then what? Yes he loses the bonuses, for a short time ,but when the item reactivates do they havee to wait 24 hours again for it to become a permanent bonus? do they lose uses of abilities derived from that stat if say its' a paladin who's headband is dispelled, does he lose those uses of lay on hands, and have to wait 24 hours before they come back?
i agree that a temporary negation of a permanent effect shouldn't 'reset' the 24 hour period once it's 'back on'.
there really should be RAW for that though, because how long is enough to do so is totally up in the air. 4 hrs? 8 hrs?
i do think spell levels should be lost temporarily (and restored when dispel ends, etc),
the current status quo of RAW is favoring casters vs. melee IMHO,
having full access to spell levels, some of which don't even require save DCs, is a big deal.
It seems likely to me that one reason for the temporary/permanent stat bonus thing was intended to prevent PCs from acquiring numerous Headbands of Vast Intelligence +2, each tied to a different skill, that they could switch out on the fly. I can't quite see how arcane casters are supposed to gain skills they can only benefit from by never thoroughly washing their hair is a flavorful option. In my games I rule that it takes 24 hours to attune to a headband and you can only be attuned to one at a time. Same with belts. But having the magic temporarily dispelled shouldn't unattune a character, just temporarily lower stats.
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It seems likely to me that one reason for the temporary/permanent stat bonus thing was intended to prevent PCs from acquiring numerous Headbands of Vast Intelligence +2, each tied to a different skill, that they could switch out on the fly.
I think this is right (or other similar exploits), so the item should count as a permanent bonus until the owner
- doesn't wear it for 24 hours, or
- puts on another item in the same slot.
I can't quite see how arcane casters are supposed to gain skills they can only benefit from by never thoroughly washing their hair is a flavorful option.
Or the fact that they couldn't remove the Belt to go to the bathroom without negating the magic.
I use the Attunement thing as well.
By RAW, it's pretty clear-cut: you lose the permanency of the bonus(es).
When dispel magic successfully suppresses an item, it actually makes the item non-magical for 1d4 rounds. When the magic resumes, one is, for all intents and purposes, donning the item anew, requiring a 24 hour period to become permanent again.
(On a somewhat related note, this is also a good way to sunder a powerful magic weapon with a lesser-enhanced weapon: sunderer readies to sunder after caster dispels the target weapon... *snap*)
My RAI would be the opposite. Since you are specifically NOT donning the item anew the full bonuses would return after the spell ended
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And as for not being able to wash your hair or hit the latrine without taking your belt off, I say thats what the clean cantrip is for!
By RAW, it's pretty clear-cut: you lose the permanency of the bonus(es).
When dispel magic successfully suppresses an item, it actually makes the item non-magical for 1d4 rounds. When the magic resumes, one is, for all intents and purposes, donning the item anew, requiring a 24 hour period to become permanent again.
well, except that the RAW doesn't actually spell that out, and although the magic item isn't working during the dispel duration, once it's working again, it HAS been worn continually for 24+ hours even if it wasn't working (but that isn't a requirement). beleive me, i can certainly understand your logic here, and it probably is the most likely reading of RAW, but it still isn't spelled out. this scenario really does seem reasonable for the rules to cover directly.
your dispel strategy would seem to work, but AFAIK isn't necessary, the magic enhancement just gives greater hardness/HPs, there isn't any requirement in PRPG sunder to have an equal/greater +X weapon to sunder a weapon or armor... you just need to do enough damage, which doesn't need ANY enhancement bonus to achieve.
Its spelled out under the ability scores section regarding permanent bonuses versus temporary bonuses.
beleive me, i can certainly understand your logic here, and it probably is the most likely reading of RAW, but it still isn't spelled out. this scenario really does seem reasonable for the rules to cover directly.
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really? i'm not seeing it say anything like 'if an item is suppressed by dispel magic for 1d4 rounds, when the magic resumes, one is, for all intents and purposes, donning the item anew, requiring a 24 hour period to become permanent again.' literally, you aren't donning the item anew. it was continually on your person for more than 24 hours, only it's effects were suppressed. i acknowledged that David's reading is a reasonable interpretation, but it isn't actually clearly specified by the rules.
Its spelled out under the ability scores section regarding permanent bonuses versus temporary bonuses.
beleive me, i can certainly understand your logic here, and it probably is the most likely reading of RAW, but it still isn't spelled out. this scenario really does seem reasonable for the rules to cover directly.
The only RAW I can see is, in the item description:
"Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn."And, page 554-5:
"Ability score increases with a duration of 1 day or less give only
temporary bonuses."
"Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points,
hit points, and other bonuses."
Nothing specifically says that the temporary cessation of the bonus causes you to lose the permanent benefit for 24 hours. GM's call.
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Its spelled out under the ability scores section regarding permanent bonuses versus temporary bonuses.
beleive me, i can certainly understand your logic here, and it probably is the most likely reading of RAW, but it still isn't spelled out. this scenario really does seem reasonable for the rules to cover directly.
.
On this note, what would the HP and hardness of a +4 con belt be for example, or a +2 int headband?
Hm, I dunno, I'd say a successful dispel magic use is like cutting the power on your clock radio (plugged in, no battery), which may only last a 'few rounds' but gives you the flashy 12:00 blinkie until you fix it.
Similarly a dispel magic hit is different from 'take it off to take a bath'. You take your magic belt off for an hour or two, heck, I'd argue that to lose connection you'd need to have it off for 24 hours, or try to wear a 'new' item in its place, otherwise the permanent bonuses come right back when you put it on again.
your dispel strategy would seem to work, but AFAIK isn't necessary, the magic enhancement just gives greater hardness/HPs, there isn't any requirement in PRPG sunder to have an equal/greater +X weapon to sunder a weapon or armor... you just need to do enough damage, which doesn't need ANY enhancement bonus to achieve.
I couldn't find it in the PFSRD, but on pg468 of the CRB, between Light Generation and Activation it says...
Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage
a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his
weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the
weapon struck.
I couldn't find it in the PFSRD, but on pg468 of the CRB, between Light Generation and Activation it says...
Damaging Magic Weapons: An attacker cannot damage
a magic weapon that has an enhancement bonus unless his
weapon has at least as high an enhancement bonus as the
weapon struck.
Luckily there was an errata regarding this rule, please check it on the Game Resource Page
Page 468—In the Weapons Section, delete the Damaging Magic Weapons paragraph. Add the following paragraph in its place:
Hardness and Hit Points: Each +1 of a magic weapon’s enhancement bonus adds +2 to its hardness and +10 to its hit points. See also Table 7–12 on page 175.
On this note, what would the HP and hardness of a +4 con belt be for example, or a +2 int headband?
Leather belts and headbands would have approximately hardness 2 and 5 hit points as per the Substance and Hardness Hit Points rules.
PRPG 2.0 should make all magic items's hardness/HP increase based on CL, and multiple effects somehow stack for that.