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Imagine the following situation: player P is between two enemies E.
E _ _ P _ _ E
The enemies are acting at the same initiative, and both charge the PC. Do they arrive simultaneously, to flank:
_ _ E P E _ _
Or one after the other, so that only the second one gets flanking:
_ _ E P _ _ E
?
It's something that comes up now and then with lots of enemies running at the PCs; can two of them move to both flank the same PC? It also comes up now and then with summoned monsters and the like, that act at the same initiative as their controller.
Imagine the following situation: player P is between two enemies E.
E _ _ P _ _ E
The enemies are acting at the same initiative, and both charge the PC. Do they arrive simultaneously, to flank:
_ _ E P E _ _
Or one after the other, so that only the second one gets flanking:
_ _ E P _ _ E
?
It's something that comes up now and then with lots of enemies running at the PCs; can two of them move to both flank the same PC? It also comes up now and then with summoned monsters and the like, that act at the same initiative as their controller.
E1 can move and ready a standard action to attack once his ally flanks. E2 can move into flanking position, triggering E1s attacks. E2 then attacks.
That is how I have been running it, as it is the legal way for creatures acting on the same initiative order to coordinate.
Only the second one gets to flank. Here are the rules for initiative, and you'll see that there is no case in which two characters move simultaneously.
Initiative Checks
At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll, as well as other modifiers from feats, spells, and other effects. Characters act in order, counting down from the highest result to the lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).
If two or more combatants have the same initiative check result, the combatants who are tied act in order of total initiative modifier (highest first). If there is still a tie, the tied characters should roll to determine which one of them goes before the other.
E1 can move and ready a standard action to attack once his ally flanks. E2 can move into flanking position, triggering E1s attacks. E2 then attacks.
That is how I have been running it, as it is the 'legal' way for creatures acting on the same initiative order to coordinate.
Yep, that's right. You can ready an attack for, "When my ally attacks from a flanking position" and then you're attack will happen just before your allies - while he's providing you flanking.
I only use this method with intelligent foes.
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Blueluck: but how about summoned creatures?
Summon Monster
This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn.
Do you resolve that as if it was a tied initiative?
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Related: how does the Stampede ability of Aurochs and Bison work then?
Stampede (Ex)
A stampede occurs if three or more creatures with stampede make a trample attack while remaining adjacent to each other. While stampeding, the creatures can trample foes of their size or smaller, and the trample's save DC increases by +2.
It looks to me like a stampede is only possible if the creatures move simultaneously. So how does that square with the normal rules?
The monsters are the result of a spell affect and go on your turn because the spell says so. There is also no rule against multiple creatures having the same initiative. Creatures must go independently on that initiative though.
As an example if two creatures have an init of 7 then one creatures takes his turn, then the other creatures takes his turn.
As for the stampede ability specific abilities trump general rules.
I only use this method with intelligent foes.
I would agree that mindless undead and gelatinous cubes oughtn't have these kinds of tactics. But IIRC, many animals hunt this way. I recall Dr. Alan Grant in Jurrasic Park:
"And that's when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side, from the other two raptors you didn't even know were there. Because Velociraptor's a pack hunter, you see, he uses coordinated attack patterns..."
Then again the raptors in that movie were arguably sapient.
I only use this method with intelligent foes.I would agree that mindless undead and gelatinous cubes oughtn't have these kinds of tactics. But IIRC, many animals hunt this way.
Yes, wolves would definitely use this tactic. Despite their low numeric value in INT, they're quite intelligent as animals go and are pack hunters. Badgers, crocodiles, sharks, or bears would not.
Humanoids might, depending on their training. Assassins from the Assassin's Guild working together against a target - absolutely! A bunch of orc barbarians, each in a rage and fighting for personal glory - probably not.
I only use this method with intelligent foes.I would agree that mindless undead and gelatinous cubes oughtn't have these kinds of tactics. But IIRC, many animals hunt this way.Yes, wolves would definitely use this tactic. Despite their low numeric value in INT, they're quite intelligent as animals go and are pack hunters. Badgers, crocodiles, sharks, or bears would not.
Humanoids might, depending on their training. Assassins from the Assassin's Guild working together against a target - absolutely! A bunch of orc barbarians, each in a rage and fighting for personal glory - probably not.
I always run NPCs as acting according to their natures, tactically. I've had enemies make foolish, greedy and so-on mistakes that I may not have wanted to, as a GM, because it made sense for them.
Still, you'd be surprised how much complaining I've gotten from players when I ran animals with good tactics because I felt in certain cases that they would instinctively act in a certain almost-intelligent way.
Int 1 doesn't mean that all animals fly into a rage and charge at you. Blah.