Just wondering
oddly enough, mithral doesn't change the handedness (must be weight distribution or something.)
All mithral does for weapons is make it weigh half as much and overcome DR/Silver (a +3 I recall will do that as well.)
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed).
that's what I thought, saw an npc in an AP without the penalty and it got me wondering
back in 3.0, it was common for my group to houserule that, if the weapon weight would drop below 3 lbs, you could use Finesse with it. (at the time, every finesse weapon was 3 lbs or less; at least as far as I read in the various books.)
it gave finesse builds more options.
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back in 3.0, it was common for my group to houserule that, if the weapon weight would drop below 3 lbs, you could use Finesse with it. (at the time, every finesse weapon was 3 lbs or less; at least as far as I read in the various books.)
it gave finesse builds more options.
That's a very interesting idea.
I think the difference between light weapons and one handed weapons lies not only in their weight but their general size. Picture this: a person takes a knife and carves their name into a tree. Fairly easy, no? Now try to image them doing the same by using a spear in one hand. Thus we can see the problem. This calls back to the common slapstick gag in movies and television where someone is carrying a long object, turns around, inadvertently hits someone, and never realizes it. This can happen even if that object is a cardboard tube because it is too unwieldy
While the rules hardly account for this, it is still a fact: people can better control weapons with two hands. This is because they can not only use their elbows as levers, but each hand can itself become the center of a lever. Two handed sword styles have been popular because they allow both greater power and precision. Usually, experienced warriors only abandoned this in return for the safety provided by a shield.
Now, this is not to say that the idea that you can change the category of a weapon with mithril is entirely unreasonable. I could totally see a two handed weapon used one handed with a slight penalty with this.
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I think the difference between light weapons and one handed weapons lies not only in their weight but their general size. Picture this: a person takes a knife and carves their name into a tree. Fairly easy, no? Now try to image them doing the same by using a spear in one hand. Thus we can see the problem. This calls back to the common slapstick gag in movies and television where someone is carrying a long object, turns around, inadvertently hits someone, and never realizes it. This can happen even if that object is a cardboard tube because it is too unwieldy
While the rules hardly account for this, it is still a fact: people can better control weapons with two hands. This is because they can not only use their elbows as levers, but each hand can itself become the center of a lever. Two handed sword styles have been popular because they allow both greater power and precision. Usually, experienced warriors only abandoned this in return for the safety provided by a shield.
Now, this is not to say that the idea that you can change the category of a weapon with mithril is entirely unreasonable. I could totally see a two handed weapon used one handed with a slight penalty with this.
Almost makes sense...except for the fact that rapiers are longer then longswords. It has more to do with balance then size in all honesty.
Rapiers are Lighter and Designed to have the weight around the hand area. It is more of Weight Distribution to Size ratio.
What AP is it?
Yes, but longswords are balanced for slashing as well as piercing. Sword balance is typically about which end the weight tends towards. You get more slashing with the weight towards the end (like an ax) and more precision (which is needed for effective piercing) with the weight towards the hilt.
Though yes, it has a lot to do with balance, but the point is that if you have a long weapon, a lot of the weapon tends to be away from you and that makes causes that end to have most of the weight. Spears give perfect examples. The basic spears come in three kinds: short, normal , and long. The short spear is only 3 feet long, and it is hardly different from a long dagger or short sword. You can easily hold them in the middle or even near the tip and still hit. The other simple spears are 5-8 feet long, and they would be hard to hold in middle since you would have to balance both ends (tip to the ground is useless, butt of the spear to the ground would hinder movement), so you need an additional hand for more strength and points of control. While I'm sure it would be possible to use the spears one handed (like the common tactic of shield and spear troupes throughout history), they would be too unwieldy to use unless your you enemies were packed tightly in a battle line.
Longswords are actually balanced to be used in one-hand while still maintaining ease of control.
Shortspears are normally 4-5 feet long, Spears are 6 feet, Longspears are 8+ feet. Javelins and Pilum are 3 feet long.
Shortspears and Spears are easy to use in one hand. It is Longspears that are to long to effectively be used one handed without special training. Even the Grecian Phalanx soldiers needed special shields to effectively use their 8 foot Longspears and even more so when they used the 16 foot Longspears.
Yes, but the argument was about rapiers being finesse-able like a light weapon. Finesse are typically associated with weapons that have enough ease of control to be used in carving(I keep going here, but that is an excellent example of precise use not possible with most one handed weapons). Since Rapiers are designed solely for piercing, they have enough of the necessary precision to use finesse yet still to long to be considered a light weapon. That is why cutlass were preferred on 18th century ships. Rapiers could end up hitting the various rails, rigging, barrels, etc. on the ship while the shorter cutlass could be used up close. The reason why cutlass are not considered light weapons like short swords is beyond me.
I was going off of the SRD with the description of the spears. I know that that is not what real spears are like, but it tends to be easier to use RAW in arguments when I agree with the rules. Even if the people writing them hardly know what they are talking about half the time (I am still sore that bucklers are tied to the arm). This is likely a hold over from early editions of D&D.
Hmm...they needed to use shields? Well, that would allow extra leverage and support using the shield as a fulcrum... Still makes the point that they would not likely hit anything that could move left or right without bumping into an ally.
Bucklers were originally tied around the hand... Odd I know but it is interesting to learn to use them.
Cutlass are really heavy and surprisingly hard to use for "Precise" Movements like a Dagger or Shortsword. Not by much but just enough.
I still don't get why I need to wear Heavy Armour to use a Chakram in Melee safely when the original users of them were lightly armoured. It is stupid. Now if it was an unproficient user I could understand it but anyone sheesh. Though I am still trying to figure out how to make a Wind-&-Fire Wheel for PF.
And their shields were essentially Heavy Shields that were Strapped around the elbow with a harness over the torso so they had both hands free and were still able to such with the Shield. It actually allowed them to push harder with the Shield. Not much but enough to make a significant difference.
The AP is Into the Nightmare Rift.
The AP is Into the Nightmare Rift.
You wouldn't happen to know the NPCs Name or have a d20pfsrd link to their stat block would you?
As that is one of the APs I have no way to access.