I know this is probably simply a function of my border-line innumeracy, but this is making my eyes cross a little bit.
I'm trying to plan out a character's career. He'll be taking a few levels each of ranger and bard and then of the Pathfinder Delver prestige class.
Right now he's a first level Ranger, so what the Character Sheet calls his Base Saves are FORT +2, REF +2, WILL +0.
When he levels up, he'll be taking a level of bard. The multiclassing material at pp. 30-31 of the Core Rulebook seems pretty clear about what to do at that point, saving throw wise: "He adds all of the hit points, base attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses from" his new class "on top of those gained from being" a 1st level ranger.
So I turn to Table 3-3: Bard at p. 36 and see what's listed for a first level bard, and do some easy addition.
Now he's a ranger 1/bard 1 and his Base Saves are FORT +2, REF +4, WILL +2, right?
That all seems pretty straightforward. Where I start to get confused as I advance him (this is all theory work right now, no battle plan ever survives contact with the Pathfinder Society) is in the subsequent levels.
The values listed in Table 3-12 Ranger at p. 66 say that a second level Ranger gets saves of FORT +3, REF +3, WILL +0. Now, I've always assumed that those are not additive. In other words, if he'd not taken that level of bard, those numbers I just listed would be his Base Saves, not the first level values plus the second level values.
Is the solution to take the difference between the 1st and 2nd level ranger values and apply those? In other words, since the difference is +1 to FORT and REF and 0 to WILL, would the new Base Saves of our freshly minted Ranger 2/Bard 1 be FORT +3, REF +5, WILL +2?
Not only am I unsure of my assumptions, I'm not even sure that I actually performed the arithmetical functions that I (tried to) describe there correctly!
Indulge me for one more moment while I level him up again, taking a second level of bard for his fourth class level. Now I return to Table 3-3 and see that the differences between a 1st and 2nd level bard are 0 to FORT and +1 to REF and WILL.
Does my new ranger 2/bard 2 have Base Saves of FORT +3, REF +6, WILL +3?
I bet if hadn't missed the 3.0/3.5 years in my gaming career I could do this in my sleep. ;)
Does my new ranger 2/bard 2 have Base Saves of FORT +3, REF +6, WILL +3?
Yes, that is correct.
Thanks! I wish there was a table and I didn't have to make sure I was doing the (yes, incredibly simple) arithmetical operation correctly every time.
Actually, I'm mildly (not to say pathetically) pleased to learn that I was right all along.
I'll take this as a win. ;)
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Whenever I build characters that intend to multiclass or grab prestige classes, I tend to write out their BAB, Saves, Special Ability and Feat Progression (should I know which feats I want) in order to have SOME idea of what the hell I'm doing in advance. It takes an awful lot of looking at the PRD, let me tell you. :)
For example:
Human Fighter (Lore Warden)/Duelist
1 (Fighter 1)(+1 BAB | +2 Fort, +0 Ref, +0 Will): Scholastic (Ex), Dodge, Weapon Finesse (Class), Power Attack (Human)
2 (Fighter 2)(+2 BAB | +3 Fort, +0 Ref, +0 Will): Expertise (Ex), Combat Expertise (Class), Dervish Dance
3 (Fighter 3)(+3 BAB | +3 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will): Maneuver Mastery +2 (Ex), Weapon Focus: Scimitar
4 (Fighter 4)(+4 BAB | +4 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will): Weapon Specialization: Scimitar (Class)
5 (Fighter 5)(+5 BAB | +4 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will): Weapon Training: Heavy Blades, Mobility
6 (Fighter 6)(+6 BAB | +5 Fort, +2 Ref, +2 Will): Bravery +1, Improved Unarmed Strike (Class)
7 (Duelist 1)(+7 BAB | +5 Fort, +3 Ref, +2 Will): Canny Defense (Ex), Precise Strike (Ex), Crane Style
8 (Fighter 7)(+8 BAB | +5 Fort, +3 Ref, +2 Will): Know Thy Enemy (Ex)
9 (Duelist 2)(+9 BAB | +6 Fort, +3 Ref, +3 Will): Improved Reaction +2 (Ex), Parry (Ex), Crane Wing
10 (Duelist 3)(+10 BAB | +6 Fort, +4 Ref, +3 Will): Enhanced Mobility (Ex)
11 (Duelist 4)(+11 BAB | +6 Fort, +4 Ref, +3 Will): Combat Reflexes, Grace (Ex), Crane Riposte
12 (Duelist 5)(+12 BAB | +7 Fort, +5 Ref, +4 Will): Riposte (Ex)
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Everytime you level up, write out the base saves for each class and level. Add them together. That is your base save.
Alternately, you can add the difference between the class' base save at prior level and at the new level. Mathematically it works the same.
Do what is less confusing for you.
Whenever I build characters that intend to multiclass or grab prestige classes, I tend to write out their BAB, Saves, Special Ability and Feat Progression (should I know which feats I want) in order to have SOME idea of what the hell I'm doing in advance. It takes an awful lot of looking at the PRD, let me tell you. :)
That's great, Seranov. That's exactly the sort of thing I'm doing. Only, y'know, less efficiently.
Everytime you level up, write out the base saves for each class and level. Add them together. That is your base save.
Alternately, you can add the difference between the class' base save at prior level and at the new level. Mathematically it works the same.
Do what is less confusing for you.
Huh! Or perhaps I should say, chuh! Thanks Howie.
I find I just go by the way the saves are calculated. Normal class saves are:
Good saves: 1/2 of level +2 rounded down.
Bad saves: 1/3 of level rounded down.
Figure that out for each class, then add them together.
If you do it frequently it becomes second nature.
For example a monk 6/Fighter3 would have
Monk has all good, so 6 levels would be (1/2 of 6)+2 = 5 for all three saves.
Fighter has good fort so fort would be (1/2 of 3 rounded down)+2 = 3
and his bad saves would be (1/3 of 3) = 1
so 5/5/5 + 3/1/1
His base saves would be +8/+6/+6.
Prestige classes work slightly different but similar.
Base Attack Bonus works similarly as well
Saves are easy enough to figure out once you recognize the pattern if you know which saves are good and bad for the classes.
Good saves add +1/2 level +2, so at level 1, it's +2, at level 2 and 3 it's +3, at level 4 it's +4....
Bad saves are even simpler. Just 1/3 level. 0 at level 1-2, +1 at 3, etc...
If you have under 3 levels in a class, don't even think about its bad saves, it doesn't advance them at all.