Nonlethal damage and regeneration

[volanir]

I am having somewhat of a silly debate with a fellow player/DM about regeneration and nonlethal damage. My opinion is that nonlethal damage is not hit point damage since it is not subtracted from the current hit points.

Regeneration says: "Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration"

Nonlethal damage says: Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points.

So would something with regeneration heal nonlethal damage?

And probably more importantly is nonlethal damage considered hit point damage?

[Caderyn]

The relevant rules text for healing of nonlethal damage from the CRB definition of non lethal damage, as regeneration is an Extraordinary ability that cures hitpoint damage it removes an equal amount of non lethal damage

"Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage."

[volanir]

Caderyn wrote:

The relevant rules text for healing of nonlethal damage from the CRB definition of non lethal damage, as regeneration is an Extraordinary ability that cures hitpoint damage it removes an equal amount of non lethal damage

"Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage."

I get how healing nonlethal damage works in general, but considering regeneration specifically states it does not heal "Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration" then would that not include nonlethal damage? Or is nonlethal damage still considered hit point damage?

[cwslyclgh]

The non-lethal damage is healed as a side effect of the regeneration (IE it is an effect which heals HP damage ergo it heals the same amount of nonlethal damage as per the non lethal damage rules).

Also note that non-lethal damage is tied directly to your HP total (as in your HP determines how much non-lethal damage you can take before being knocked out)... so perhaps it would be better categorized as a different form of HP damage rather than not HP damage.

[BetaSprite]

I would say that since regeneration is healing hit points, and non-lethal is removed equal to hit point healing, it would heal non-lethal damage at the same rate that it heals lethal damage.

If that wasn't how it worked, that would make it so that it is better to knock out a creature with regeneration and then coup de grace them, rather than fighting them normally, and that doesn't feel right.

[Herald of the Vile]

volanir wrote:

Caderyn wrote:

The relevant rules text for healing of nonlethal damage from the CRB definition of non lethal damage, as regeneration is an Extraordinary ability that cures hitpoint damage it removes an equal amount of non lethal damage

"Healing Nonlethal Damage: You heal nonlethal damage at the rate of 1 hit point per hour per character level. When a spell or ability cures hit point damage, it also removes an equal amount of nonlethal damage."

I get how healing nonlethal damage works in general, but considering regeneration specifically states it does not heal "Attack forms that don’t deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration" then would that not include nonlethal damage? Or is nonlethal damage still considered hit point damage?

nonlethal damage is still damage, it's just tracked differently because it is supposed to be easier to knock someone out than it is to kill them. Of course, who feather punches their foes.

All that caveat in Regeneratioj means is that the ability can't be used to get rid of other status effects, durational spells that effect the target, ability damage/drain, or negative levels.

Hope that helps.

-Jon