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hopefully this will be an easy question, but is it possible to wield a spiked gauntlet and a dagger in the same hand? i'm not talking about wielding them both at the same time. my question stems from what i'd like my rogue to do, which is use (twf) daggers in melee combat, but before combat have a spiked gauntlet or cestus enchanted with dueling just to get +4 initiative bonus.
Yes, you can have both of those out at the same time. You wouldn't, as you said, be able to use them both simultaneously, but you could have them both.
Dueling doesn't seem to prohibit that little... loophole.
"provided the weapon is drawn and in hand when the Initiative check is made."
So, yeah, *shrug*, I guess. Congrats on finding a benefit for an otherwise generally subpar weapon ability. :)
While it doesn't magically take up the hand slot it does physically.
So some hand slot items might have trouble fitting under the gauntlet.
While it doesn't magically take up the hand slot it does physically.
Magic Items on the Body - "Hands: gauntlets and gloves."
A magical gauntlet will take up the Hands slot, but a magical dagger will not.
I feel corrected
Honestly a +4 initiative for 16,000 gp?
the point was to not obviously have a weapon in hand all the time, but still get the +4 bonus.
my character options are use a feat for +4 initiative, or spend 14k. on a dual wielding rogue build, i will happily spend 14k so i don't have to spend a feat.
While it doesn't magically take up the hand slot it does physically.Magic Items on the Body - "Hands: gauntlets and gloves."
A magical gauntlet will take up the Hands slot, but a magical dagger will not.
That isn't referring to Gauntlets as in the Weapon.
It is referring to things like the Gauntlets Of The Weaponmaster & Gauntlet Of Rust.
It is one of those stupid little exceptions to the rules.
That isn't referring to Gauntlets as in the Weapon.
Reasoning?
You'll note I specifically said a "magical gauntlet." You can wear magic gloves and mundane gauntlets, but if you have magical gloves and magic gauntlets, only one of them works. Given how rare magic gauntlets are, it's not really a big deal unless you're building some kind of weird two-weapon gauntlet warrior.
Maybe they'll clarify it when they change all the glove weapons to be normal light melee weapons and not have anything to do with unarmed strikes.
You mean like they did with Ultimate Equipment?
And what type of Magical Gauntlet are you talking about? If you are talking about a +1 Flaming Gauntlet then that counts as a Magic Weapon not a Wondrous Item where as a Gauntlet of Rust counts as a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Weapon.
NOTE: I seen someone comment on this before but I can't find it using my phone. But they ad something along the lines of RAW it is the way I said above but in their Games that doesn't work. But it was the way I stated above even during 3.x as they actually FAQ'd/Errata'd it.
As I said it is one of those stupid little exceptions to the rules. Do I allow it not unless it is specific items. Like a Glove Of Storing with a Cestus which I can see do to the Cestus design.
You mean like they did with Ultimate Equipment?
Did the clarify them in UE? I thought they still had issues with some of them.
And what type of Magical Gauntlet are you talking about? If you are talking about a +1 Flaming Gauntlet then that counts as a Magic Weapon not a Wondrous Item where as a Gauntlet of Rust counts as a Wondrous Item and not a Magic Weapon.
Magic Items on the Body is not restricted to wondrous items. It includes rings, armor, shields, etc.
As I said it is one of those stupid little exceptions to the rules.
Then it should be stated, or hinted at, or something.
Do I allow it not unless it is specific items. Like a Glove Of Storing with a Cestus which I can see do to the Cestus design.
If the first line in the cestus description is rules and not fluff, then a cestus is a glove. This means a magical cestus and a Glove of Storing both take up the Hands slot.
I am just stating the Argument I had to listen to between two of my players. I agree with you. And in UE Gauntlets are under Light Melee Weapons.
It is one of those stupid things that some players want to exploit. I personally never use Gauntlets unless it is something like a Gauntlet of the Warmaster. I prefer Cestus but I am trained in their use with Historically accurate Armour.
I still find it funny that Gauntlets technically are the same thing as Bracers. The only difference between them is whether or not they are attached to Shoulder/Upper Arm protection. As the whole Full Plate Gauntlet you see in Movies was normally reserved for Parade Armour Suits do to the Amount of Metal required to construct them.
The onoy part of the hand a Cestus covers is the Back and around the fingers. You can easily wear Gloves under them and in fact it is encouraged.
In the rules it has to do with Gauntlets being under weapons and being part of Armour that makes people use either it is part of my Armour therefore it is in the Armour Slot or it is a Weapon therefore it is treated as a Weapon. 3.x had a ruling in favor of the latter as far as I know Pathfinder doesn't. At least nother other than a devs personal feelings on it.