Archetype question.


RPG Superstar™ General Discussion

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Bbauzh ap Aghauzh wrote:


Last typing speed test I took was 14 or 15 years ago or so, and I was at 77wpm. That’s on a typing test. I learned to type so fast playing a Text Based MMORPG where I could fight and talk faster than most other folks using long-hand commands where they were using the short-hand commands. I could almost fight faster than using a macro or script.

Ahhh... I miss Gateway* sometimes. :)

My typing increased thanks to this game. The last test I took was around 100 wpm and that was pre-MUD. When I taught a computer class I actually included one of these as typing improvement lesson. Most of my students increased 30% in six weeks. :)

NaNoWriMo says I should be at 1667, but I shoot for 1000 words a day. The quality is better and I usually go over.
*which one?

Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8

Jacob Trier wrote:
Anthony Adam wrote:
Jacob Trier wrote:

Here you go:

Epic Meepo Presents: Archetypes

The link doesn't work for me - I just get the Messageboards page - is this in a protected forum only visible by finalists or something?
Fixed link - otherwise, check out Eric's profile, under the threads tab.

There's also Eric's Google Doc.

Liberty's Edge

Curaigh wrote:
Bbauzh ap Aghauzh wrote:


Last typing speed test I took was 14 or 15 years ago or so, and I was at 77wpm. That’s on a typing test. I learned to type so fast playing a Text Based MMORPG where I could fight and talk faster than most other folks using long-hand commands where they were using the short-hand commands. I could almost fight faster than using a macro or script.

Ahhh... I miss Gateway* sometimes. :)

My typing increased thanks to this game. The last test I took was around 100 wpm and that was pre-MUD. When I taught a computer class I actually included one of these as typing improvement lesson. Most of my students increased 30% in six weeks. :)

NaNoWriMo says I should be at 1667, but I shoot for 1000 words a day. The quality is better and I usually go over.
*which one?

Terris

Grand Lodge

GM_Solspiral wrote:
Would LOVE to see Archetypes for the NPC classes as a twist (though admittedly it would throw me for a loop.)

There really would be no need for one for an Expert since each one is basically a unique package of skills. And Commoners have nothing to swap out.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

How should diminished spellcasting be used to comply with the round 2 template?

In all of the examples of it there is no indication of (Ex, Sp, or Su).

Also, many of the archetypes that have diminished spellcasting use this limitation to balance additional abilities, without the additional abilities replacing a specific class ability, and therefore, not having a sentence that says which class feature of the original class it replaces, such as "This ability replaces evasion."

Example: Cloistered Cleric

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Well, do you think the ability to cast spells is Ex, Sp, or Su? :)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 aka JoelF847

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Well, do you think the ability to cast spells is Ex, Sp, or Su? :)

In a word, no. :)

The spells class ability also doesn't have Ex, Sp, or Su after their listing. Using the definitions of these classifications, spells are not extraordinary, since they are magical, they are not spell like since they aren't simply like spells, they actually are spells, plus they can be counterspelled, unlike spell like abilities. Finally, spells clearly aren't supernatural, since they are subject to spell resistance (mostly).

Also, what about my question about if you need to use "This ability replaces X" if diminished spellcasting is used to balance out additional abilities?

Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7

It's a holdover from 3rd edition that was inherited by PF. Realistically, spell-like abilities and spells themselves should have been folded together so that every ability would be one of the three basic types. Or if they were really smart they would have just scrapped that category altogether and made everything either (Ex) or (Su); I'm personally not sure whether the granularity between a bolt of lightning which works like a lightning bolt spell and a bolt of lightning which works slightly differently is really worth keeping around. I'd prefer a much simpler Magic/Not-Magic dichotomy.

As far as I can tell it's a legacy issue, because of the way that traditional spellcasters were benchmarks for power; the game was basically built around the framework of the cleric and wizard. Monster abilities tended to become "like this spell BUT", which led to the introduction of abilities that just cite preexisting spell effects in order to save wordcount and to avoid having to think creatively.

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Joel Flank wrote:
Also, what about my question about if you need to use "This ability replaces X" if diminished spellcasting is used to balance out additional abilities?

If your new ability isn't really replacing an existing ability, it shouldn't say it's replacing an existing ability. But watch out for Advice #3 (and it sort of brushes up against Advice #10, too).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8 aka Ezekiel Shanoax, the Stormchild

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Joel Flank wrote:
Also, what about my question about if you need to use "This ability replaces X" if diminished spellcasting is used to balance out additional abilities?
If your new ability isn't really replacing an existing ability, it shouldn't say it's replacing an existing ability. But watch out for Advice #3 (and it sort of brushes up against Advice #10, too).

Is this perhaps a situation where 'look at an example archetype' is superseded by 'follow the SKR Advice'...?

There may be published archetypes out there that maybe wouldn't make it through RPG Superstar, ja? (only half-rhetorical, I'm interested).

Designer, RPG Superstar Judge

Just as most of the published items (including those in the Core Rulebook) are functional and necessary, but not superstar, most of the published archetypes are functional and necessary, but not superstar.

Also, much of my archetype advice is "hey, if you haven't written an archetype before" sort of advice—stuff that beginners should do or avoid. If you're more experienced, feel free to push the boundaries of that advice, if you're willing to accept the risks involved.

Star Voter Season 6

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Looking at the published archetypes, there are quite a few that merely shift things around. This isn't really bad, but I certainly wouldn't call it superstar. Rather, I find the interesting archetypes to be ones that give new, cool abilities - that is, things players can do that they probably couldn't normally do as that class.

An example of one archetype I particularly like would be the Flowing Monk. That redirection ability is pretty sweet. It may be a little overpowered, but I would much rather see archetypes along those lines than ones like Monk of the Four Winds; all that one does is swap out a bonus feat.

I have tried to model my archetype in this vein of adding new verbs to a player's options, though I think it has resulted in a couple of overpowered abilities. I'm currently going through and pairing it down, but I don't want to strip so much away it becomes lackluster. Ah, balancing... just something you get better at through experience, I guess.

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