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I realized this today. The only class that prepares spells out of a spellbook just like a wizard does, and they don't get Draconic as a substitute bonus language.
I'm not sure if its that big of a deal, but I just find it weird, since adding it doesn't boost their power, but depending on the strictness of the GM, not having it could cost them, if they find a spellbook or scroll in just Draconic.
I know they could just spend a skill point in Linguistics to learn it, but if Wizards and Clerics(not sure if any other classes get a substitute language) why can't a Magus?
I personally don't see why they would. Could be in part because they study Martial weapons as well as magic, and don't delve as far as wizards do to gain access to a bonus language.
Clerics I understand the Celestial, Abyssal, and Infernal languages, not so much Wizards getting Draconic.
Witches don't get bonus languages, nor oracles, nor sorcerers (as far as I know.)
Witches, oracles and sorcs do not need em, as they don't learn spells the same way a Wizard/Magus does. Even a Witch, who has a virtual spellbook in her familiar, does not need to read it.
As far as I know, the reasoning behind Wizards getting Draconic is that's the main language spellbooks are written in.
I always thought this was completely dumb, seeing as draconic magic is tied to sorcery and not wizardry.
Then of course there is the spell 'read magic' what exactly are you reading? draconic? why would you need a spell for that? Is magic a language?
I've always subbed draconic for elvish, Elven should be the language of wizard, dragons are sorcerers.
You could say the same about alchemist's as well. They prepare their extracts out of a formula book just like a wizard does.
But seriously? An int based caster complaining about using 1 skill point to learn a certain language?
You could say the same about alchemist's as well. They prepare their extracts out of a formula book just like a wizard does.
But seriously? An int based caster complaining about using 1 skill point to learn a certain language?
yea but do they need it? what language are extracts written in?
spellbooks/scrolls aren't written in any normal language including draconic, it's just magic writing that you use spellcraft for.
while draconic may be closely associated with wizardry, i think it's safe to say that magus' skipped out on the wizard school class in draconic and took the magic-fighty class instead. they are an INT-based class, if they want to know draconic, put one rank in linguistics, it's not like learning a language is actually hard in PRPG.
yea but do they need it? what language are extracts written in?You could say the same about alchemist's as well. They prepare their extracts out of a formula book just like a wizard does.
But seriously? An int based caster complaining about using 1 skill point to learn a certain language?
I'm not saying they need it, they can easily spare the skill point in linguistics. But if Monkeygod is saying a magus needs draconic because that is what spellbooks are written in, then an alchemist could make just as much use of knowing draconic, since both classes can learn their spells from a wizards spellbook. And I'm going to take a guess and say extracts/formulas are written in alchemical formulas, which is why they are called formulas.
yea but is "alchemical formulae' or 'magic' a language?
Scribe scroll is a feat. what does it let you do? Write in magic, yes? So this draconic thing is like relish on hotdogs, no one knows why it's there, you dont NEED it, but your so used to having FOR a hotdog that it seems weird when you dont have it.
Maybe wizards learn to speak draconic because they are a magical and ancient race, and that's the wizards version of "latin"?
Maybe wizards learn to speak draconic because they are a magical and ancient race, and that's the wizards version of "latin"?
this is how i see it... that ancient osirioni and modern are effectively different languages also probably helps draconic in having the most continuity.
i think each wizard can have their own way of writing 'magic' which may or may not have some relation to a specific normal language, but nothing makes you need to understand a specific language to read ANY magical writing, and not every wizard knows draconic, even if they can also CHOOSE TO by default, yet they manage to get by.i would see it as many treatises on magical theory and the like might tend to be written in draconic. on the other hand, it's probably just a respect thing - when comprehend languages can dissolve any language barrier, there really aren't many OBJECTIVE reasons to favor one language or another, but subjective cultural ones would still hold some sway.
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spellbooks/scrolls aren't written in any normal language including draconic, it's just magic writing that you use spellcraft for.
while draconic may be closely associated with wizardry, i think it's safe to say that magus' skipped out on the wizard school class in draconic and took the magic-fighty class instead. they are an INT-based class, if they want to know draconic, put one rank in linguistics, it's not like learning a language is actually hard in PRPG.
This.
Magical writing in Pathfinder is not just Draconic, but a complex system of arcane runes. The history of mortal spellcasting in Golarion isn't even tied to dragons; Jatembe pioneered most of what we know of wizardry today, independent of draconic influence.
yeah, it's also an issue of vanilla rules vs. golarion specific crunch.
ancient/modern osirioni CAN'T be included as an automatically available language in the generic classes.
but dragons are arcane magic users, so draconic being always available isn't going to cause a problem for anybody,
unless you are playing in a game without dragons period, in which draconic shouldn't exist so no problem there,
except ret-conning the draconic sorceror bloodline and spells that reference that sort of thing.
i hate the idea that every character knows 'common', btw.
let that be culturally determined. regional commons make more sense.
learning languages or otherwise dealing with that (e.g. via magic) is just so easy,
that forcing 'common' down everybodies throat as some globe-spanning super language just seems un-necessary.
it pretty much has direct flavor consequences to explain why common (i.e. taldan) is so dominant,
when otherwise the area that truly seems common/taldan-dominated is not so globally dominant,
even if it definitely could qualify as a regional 'common' or trade language.
(in most of avistan around inner sea and castrovel sea and sellen river)
the land of linnorn kings, realm of mammoth lords, irrisen, belkzen, ustalav, numeria, sarkoris/worldwound,
and even parts of varisia shouldn't really have common spoken by every citizen you might meet, even if it is common for traders and the like to speak/understand it.
i hate the idea that every character knows 'common', btw.
let that be culturally determined. regional commons make more sense.
learning languages or otherwise dealing with that (e.g. via magic) is just so easy,
that forcing 'common' down everybodies throat as some globe-spanning super language just seems un-necessary.
it pretty much has direct flavor consequences to explain why common (i.e. taldan) is so dominant.
Then homerule it otherwise.
I've also noticed some creatures do NOT know common. Let me just say it is odd for everyone.
i do. and i still hate the idea that it would be otherwise :-)
The "common" language theme actually stems from european influence. Multiple cultures with different languages, living really close to each other often engaged in trade. The 'common' language at one time was latin, then it was replaced by french until a hundred or so years ago. For whatever reason English is actually the common world tongue now. If you want to deal in international architecture or engineering, you use english (it used to be french) so there has always been a 'common' language, even in RL, even though it wasn't always the 'same' language.
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In golarion Taldane (for the Inner Sea region) is the common tongue, but not all human and demi-human NPC know it.
In Ustalav the doninant language is Varisian, in the land of the Linnorm King it is skaald, I think there is no region where Hallit is the dominant language. NPC with intelligence 11 or less and no rank in linguistic will know the dominant language. Most traders will know it and most learned folk too.
As Pedagast said it reflect medieval Europe, where learned people was capable to converse in Latin even if their native language was reciprocally incomprehensible.
Some language was more widely used by people engaged in some specific activity (during the XIX and most of the XX century being capable to read German was practically mandatory for a chemist) but Latin, then French and now English did allow you to communicate with a lot of people.
I think there were equivalent "lingua franca" used in the Indian sub-continent and in China.
About the draconic/magic writing, I have always use an approach where "magic writing" is the equivalent of a mathematical equation and is used in the preparation of scrolls. The spell written in a wizard spellbook has that "magic equation", that is the part that govern how you will manipulate the magical energy to get the end result and a descriptive part written in whatever language the wizard want to sue that explain what the spell do, explain possible problem in its use and so on.
You can comprehend the equation without referencing the text, but reading the text make it way clearer. So in my game world a spellbook prepared to be easily comprehensible by other people make the spellcraft check to elarn a spell easier or even automatic. It rarely matter as most spellcasters using spellbooks/formula books have a good spellcraft, but sometime it can make a difference, especially for a non spellcaster trying to get an idea of what is written is in a spellbook.