Suppose your players come across some hell wasps.
the group wizard says I roll a knowledge check.
would you make the player state the proper knowledge and make the roll...
or would you simply have them roll a D20 and ask them for all of their knowlage bonuses...
or would you simply say 'roll a knowledge planes'
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I call for the correct knowledge check when the creatures are first encountered. If there are some devils and a dragon, I'd say "Anyone can make knowledge (planes) or knowledge (arcana) checks if they have those skills." Yes, it creates more metagaming opportunities, but if they're the kind of player that can make game changing decisions based on what check is called for, they probably have the creature's stats close to memorized anyway.
I look at it this way: if I see a kind of car I've never seen before, I don't have to spend long periods of time asking myself, "Is that a tree? Is that a book on philosophy? Is that a bowl of chicken noodle soup? Is that a mountain?" I know it's a car just by looking at it, without the need for a relentless self-interrogation. That's what Knowledge Skills are -- when you see a thing you understand, you understand it. When you see a thing you recognize, you recognize it. So I just give the list of skills people can roll on and let them pick which one they want to try.
Specific (Core Rulebook, pg. 99-100):
Arcana - constructs, dragons, magical beasts
Dungeoneering - aberrations, oozes
Local - humanoids
Nature - animals, fey, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin
Planes - outsiders
Religion - undead
A hellwasp swarm (diminutive vermin) would require a Knowledge (Nature) check; although a Knowledge (Planes) check might also be allowed (at a penalty) for identification, but not to reveal useful information.
Its just an example, this kind of situation comes up often, it could be that they hear the bugs droning in infernal and decide to do a knowlage planes. same problem arises.
I look at it this way: if I see a kind of car I've never seen before, I don't have to spend long periods of time asking myself, "Is that a tree? Is that a book on philosophy? ....
I hear you greg. usually its pretty obvious... but sometime its not at all obvious. Most animals with a human face like sphinx are magical beasts , so if you enter a room and hear it contains a giant snake with the head of a woman do you roll an arcana or a dungeoneering? If you see what looks like a giant moth with skull paterns on its wings, and tenticles around its mouth is that Nature? aberition? magical? planar?
bottom line is I ask this for a reason not because I think players cant tell the difference between a tree and a bowl of soup.
Redchigh
I houserule a single knowledge check.
I have a list of all pc's knowledges, plus we have a bard with no points in any knowledges.I give them the highest knowledge they qualify for, or in a tie I pick at random.
If they qualify for information for more than one and beat the dc substantially, they get all.
are you saying that you would just have them all roll the 20 but only the one with the best skill score gets it? what if I have a +10 but roll a 3 (13) and the guy with a plus 5 rolls a 17 (23) The DC is 21. Do we get it because some one beat 21 or do we fail because the guy with that knowledge rolled too low? also do you NOT tell them the knowledge they need and let them roll then you add the appropriate bonus or do you say "who has the best Knowledge X. ok roll it."
I am just trying to figure out the best way to do it. I think giving them the knowledge is too metagamey, but punishing the for rolling a GREAT check on the wrong knowledge is kind of campy too. I think keeping all of their skills is the best but then i slow the game down on book keeping and I wonder if that takes anything away from the players enjoyment of using their skill.
If its supposed to be a secret, i make a DM cheat sheet with the players knowledge scores on it and ask everyone to roll a d20. I'd only be that secretive if i was running a mystery/suspense toned session however. normally i either ask for whatever knowledge it is to be rolled, or ask for a roll and glance at their sheet.
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I look at it this way: if I see a kind of car I've never seen before, I don't have to spend long periods of time asking myself, "Is that a tree? Is that a book on philosophy? Is that a bowl of chicken noodle soup? Is that a mountain?" I know it's a car just by looking at it, without the need for a relentless self-interrogation. That's what Knowledge Skills are -- when you see a thing you understand, you understand it. When you see a thing you recognize, you recognize it. So I just give the list of skills people can roll on and let them pick which one they want to try.
The characters might not be thinking about which kind of knowledge they're using to recognize the creature, but the players absolutely need to know which knowledge check to roll and which modifier to add, or else the GM has to keep track of that for them.
If you want to keep it secret you can just ask for a d20 roll, keep a list of skill bonuses, and do the math yourself to see if anyone made the right DC with the right skill (or an acceptable skill if you allow more than one knowledge to apply).
Alternatively, players could make one roll and tell the GM what the final check result is is for any knowledge they're allowed to make a check in. This is fine if each PC has only one or two knowledge skills or has several knowledge skills at the same modifier, but could get unwieldly if one character has a number of such skills at different modifiers.
In my group the GM usually just asks for the relevant knowledge skill.
fair enough.
Dot.