| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Can you make an oil of silence with Brew Potion? It seems to me that it could target an object, but the spell doesn't specifically have a Target line.
I don't see how, it specifically requires Craft Wondrous Item.
I don't see how, it specifically requires Craft Wondrous Item.
Huh? No, I'm talking about making a potion of the silence spell. I said "oil" because "oil" is the term Paizo often uses for "potions that target objects."
It would appear not. I'd say that a target line is unnecessary if the body of the spell mentions targeting a creature. But silence specifically mentions a point in space, which can be centered on a creature or object. Further, if it targeted a creature, it would affect that creature only, not the area around it, or at least that's my hypothesis, which could be disproved by example.
(edit: when I say, "creature," I mean, "creature or object.")
I don't see how, it specifically requires Craft Wondrous Item.Huh? No, I'm talking about making a potion of the silence spell. I said "oil" because "oil" is the term Paizo often uses for "potions that target objects."
Ahhh, 'oil of silence' is also a specific wondrous item (in the firearms section).
I guess, then, the issue is whether "20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space" is the same as simply targeting an object. A strict reading says no, IMHO.
I think this is unclear by RAW, however.
IF it says you ned Craft Wondrous Item then you need Craft Wondrous Item.I don't see how, it specifically requires Craft Wondrous Item.Huh? No, I'm talking about making a potion of the silence spell. I said "oil" because "oil" is the term Paizo often uses for "potions that target objects."
Oil of Silence is a specific wondrous item; RD wants to know if one can craft an oil of silence (as in, a potion that is applied to an object).
Different things.
IF it says you ned Craft Wondrous Item then you need Craft Wondrous Item.
Indeed, the wondrous item called "oil of silence" requires Craft Wondrous Item, but he's asking if it is possible to use Brew Potion to make a potion or oil based on the silence spell, which would be called "oil of silence" as well. There's no specific list of potions or oils that Brew Potion can create, so as long as a spell is a valid target for B.P., it could work (which in this case, it doesn't seem to be a valid potion/oil spell). There is a list of potions in Ultimate Equipment, but to my knowledge it is not definitively exhaustive.
I don't think the phrase "...centered on a creature, object, or point in space" means...
"centered on a creature, centered on an object, or centered on a point in space"
...so much as it means "the emanation follows the targeted creature or object, or sits in a point of space." I see it as multiple possible targets in other words, but I want to make sure.
Otherwise, all these threads about fighter's carrying silenced rocks with them into battle against spellcasters wouldn't really work out since once they move the target they would leave the emanation behind.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
I don't see how, it specifically requires Craft Wondrous Item.Huh? No, I'm talking about making a potion of the silence spell. I said "oil" because "oil" is the term Paizo often uses for "potions that target objects."
Ambiguous wondrous item name is ambiguous.
Silence appears not to have a target entry. That would argue that no, you can't make it an oil.
However, I would rule that it is possible, however, because the block text basically describes the way the spell is targeted without calling out the creature, object, or point in space as a target.
Ravingdork, I do think it means "centered on a creature, centered on an object, or centered on a point in space", but this is not a problem (for the use case of casting silence on a rock and carrying it around, anyway), as the nature of emanations mean that they effect continues to radiate from its point of origin. And since "centered on a creature" and "[centered on an] object" are relative terms, as the creature or object moves, so does the point of origin. I think it would be pretty unreasonable for someone to argue that, "oh, but the rock has moved now, so the silence effect remains where the rock was when the spell was cast."
So you don't target a creature, object, or point in space as such, but rather you specify a creature, object, or point in space as the center of the emanation as a parameter of how the spell should "behave". That said, I think it should be "Target: 1 creature, object, or point in space". I tend not to like the target, area, and range definitions of many of the spells in the game, so this is just another one I'm adding to my "examples of things that could be improved" list.
I would say that you can't create a potion/oil of silence with the Brew Potion feat because when the potion/oil is consumed, it targets the creature or object the it was used on. Silence doesn't target a creature or object, but rather targets an area centered on a creature/object/point.
This is an important distinction because potions and oils target only a single creature or object and can never directly affect anything other than the creature or object it was used on with its spell effect. Allowing an area spell such silence to be placed in an oil would make spells such as fireball allowable to place in a oil as well.
|
|
Looking at the explanation of Area under Aiming a Spell, here's what you find:
"Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don't control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection."
That pretty much contradicts the Area given for Silence in every way. Looking at all the Area types, you'll find the Silence spell combines bits and pieces from Emanation, Creature and Object. Under Creature you'll see this line:
"A spell with this kind of area affects creatures directly (like a targeted spell), but it affects all creatures in an area of some kind rather than individual creatures you select."
The bolded part kinda sorta validates Silence as a Targeted spell. Unfortunately, Creature says the emanation should be affecting all the creatures in the 20ft area, not just one creature, so that just causes more of a disconnect.
The only thing left is Other, which says:
"A spell can have a unique area, as defined in its description."
To me, that's the only definition that makes sense in relation to Silence. The spell description gives you an explanation of how it works on a single creature or object and even says the emanation follows the creature or object if it moves. Like Charlie Bell pointed out, the only thing it never does is explicitly state the creature or object is a Target.
I could see a GM disallowing a Potion of Silence because the description never specifically says anything about Targets. On the other hand, I would argue that the spot I bolded above combined with the specific wording of the spell's area indicate Silence can Target one creature or object because the description of a Creature area says it works "like a Targeted spell."
Yeah. It's not clear, but the Silence Stone has been part of the game for years and I don't know of anyone from TSR, WoTC or Paizo ever coming forward to throw the rulebook at it (paper beats rock, ha hah.) I've always allowed it, but I think changing the target descriptor would fix the confusion.
If the spell ever gets updated, I'd suggest making it target only one creature or object without the emanation but also having the option to affect an immobile 20-ft radius point in space. That way, you could use it to silence a single caster or piece of clanky armor or you could create a field of silence muffling anything inside.
Thanks for the synopsis, Zipper.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
If it matters, the Pathfinder Free RPG Day module...