Adjudication help

[Pendin Fust]

I'm asking for help on adjudicating these sequences of actions one of my players wants to take in my Mythic PbP.

Swift: activate Mythic Advance - everyone except Charles gains a move action on my turn
Bonus move: 5' step to D7 and hand crossbow and bolts to Embok.
Move: Activate Mythic Rally (one d20 reroll for everyone except Charles until the start of my next turn) and 5' step to E6
Standard: Cast Cure Light Wounds on the spirit

So she wants to take the swift action to active Mythic Advance from her Marshal ability.

She wants to 5' step and hand a weapon over to a player on that bonus move.

She then wants to take a move action to active Mythic Rally from Marshal path.

And finally take her standard.

Even with cases of Mythic Advance...5' step can ONLY be taken in a round if no other move actions are taken right? And definitely she wouldn't be able to do 5' and a whole move action of giving the weapon to the player in her bonus Move action?

[Squeek]

A 5' step can be taken as long as no other movement is taken. You can still use a move action for something, like handing a weapon to an ally, while taking a five foot step. A 5' step and a full 30' movement is a no go. Your player seems to be in line with the allowed actions in a round, though only one 5' step should be allowed in the round not one per move action.

[Epic Meepo]

How is your player taking 5-foot step during a bonus move action? A move action is just that: a move action. Not a bonus move action plus a bonus 5-foot step. A 5-foot step is a separate action that a creature takes on its own turn or as part of a readied action. A bonus move action doesn't grant one.

[Hama]

You don't need to ready an action to make a 5 foot step. A bonus move action can be a move action, or any other action that is not limited in number that takes less time then the move action.

[Epic Meepo]

I stand corrected. I just checked the PRD, and does say you can perform a 5-foot step before, during, or after any move action (not just those taken on your turn), provided you are allow to take a 5-foot step that round.

So everything your player wants to do is legit except for the second 5-foot step. You can't take a 5-foot step during a round if you've already moved any distance that round. (Move-equivalent actions you take that aren't actually movement don't prevent you from taking a 5-foot step.)

[Urath DM]

Epic Meepo wrote:

How is your player taking 5-foot step during a bonus move action? A move action is just that: a move action. Not a bonus move action plus a bonus 5-foot step. A 5-foot step is a separate action that a creature takes on its own turn or as part of a readied action. A bonus move action doesn't grant one.

Nothing in the PRD says you can take the 5-foot step on another's turn.

PRD wrote:

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

Immediate actions are the only actions I am aware of that can be taken during another creature's turn.

I suppose it could be clearer if it said "You can take a 5-foot step at the start of your turn, between or during any of your actions, or at the end of your turn," which is how I think that is meant to be read.

[Epic Meepo]

Actually, the PRD contradicts itself. In addition to the section you quote, there's also this:

The PRD wrote:

Move Action: A move action allows you to move up to your speed or perform an action that takes a similar amount of time. See Table: Actions in Combat for other move actions.

You can take a move action in place of a standard action. If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move action for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action.

This section of the PRD is allowing you to take 5-foot steps during move-equivalent and full-round actions as an intrinsic function of move-equivalent and full-round actions; according to this text, a 5-foot step has nothing to do with what actions you have available during your turn and everything to do with whether or not you are currently performing a move-equivalent or full-round action (in a round during which you haven't moved an actual distance).

Which isn't at all how I thought it worked, but there it is, straight from the PRD.

[Darkwolf117]

Epic Meepo wrote:

according to this text, a 5-foot step has nothing to do with what actions you have available during your turn and everything to do with whether or not you are currently performing a move-equivalent or full-round action

Wait... what?

A 5-foot step, from what I understand, is that as long as you haven't moved (as in actually moved distance, with a move action, or charging or whatever), you can take that 5-foot step, and it essentially does not cost you anything.

It has no action associated with it, and doesn't need to be done as part of any other actions. It just prevents you from actually moving later in a round(or later in your turn, more likely), or is impossible if you've moved earlier. So you can take a move action to draw a bow, a standard action to attack with it, and then 5-foot step before your turn ends. Or use a move action to draw a sword, 5-foot step closer to the enemy, and then use your standard to attack.

I think it is only brought up in full round actions to note that you can do it in the middle of them (i.e. Full attack, with a 5-foot step at some point to get in range of some other enemies), and move actions to note that if you aren't using your move for actual movement, you can still 5-foot step.

...Or are you pointing out something else, and I just didn't follow correctly?

[Epic Meepo]

All I'm saying is that the PRD is nowhere near as clear-cut as I'd have liked when it comes to 5-foot steps and actions taken out-of-turn.

The section entitled "The Combat Round" says all of a character's actions are taken during that character's turn (so this is the general rule), but then says there are exceptions to this rule.

The section entitled "Action Types" says a character takes 5-foot steps before, during, or after performing a move-equivalent or full-round action (with no mention of the turn during which the action is taken, and oddly enough, no mention of 5-foot steps during standard actions).

The section entitled "Ready" says you can take a 5-foot step during a readied action (so there is precedent for taking 5-foot steps as part of other actions taken out-of-turn).

The section entitled "Take a 5-Foot Step" says you can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions during the round (with no mention of when during the round those actions happen).

So we have one section of the PRD saying actions are usually taken during your turn (the general rule), one section saying 5-foot steps can be taken out-of-turn during readied actions (so we know there are exceptions to the general rule where 5-foot steps are concerned), and two sections of the PRD saying 5-foot steps can be taken during other actions (which may or may not include out-of-turn actions; it doesn't say).

So I could easily see it being argued that 5-foot steps can be taken as part of out-of-turn move-equivalent actions. Especially since 5-foot steps can already be taken as part of readied actions.

[Darkwolf117]

Ah, I see what you're saying now. I don't generally deal with 5-foot steps outside of a character's normal turn, and actually if you hadn't pointed it out, I didn't realize there was any precedent for doing so.

You're right, that is a bit more complicated than I had thought.

[Pendin Fust]

Yep, that was part of my confusion. The character dropped the first 5' step when I mentioned this but I would love to see how Jason envisions the 5' step interacting with abilities like these.

[Darkwolf117]

Yeah, seeing as Mythic is making so many changes to core gameplay mechanics, it is interesting. For example, I wonder how many 5-foot steps you can take in a round if you use Amazing Initiative to go twice...