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From the Equipment section of the PRD. Note the bolded portions.
Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon.
Projectile Weapons: Blowguns, light crossbows, slings, heavy crossbows, shortbows, composite shortbows, longbows, composite longbows, halfling sling staves, hand crossbows, and repeating crossbows are projectile weapons. Most projectile weapons require two hands to use (see specific weapon descriptions). A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it's a specially built composite shortbow or longbow, or a sling. If the character has a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when he uses a bow or a sling.
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn.
So...
...the 1.5 damage multiplier for strength only applies to melee attacks.
...the sling staff must be a strength weapon to do additional damage for strength.
...you do not gain the shield bonus if you use the sling staff.
You know, I've never heard of a Strength Sling Staff and I really have no idea what a craftsman could do to such a weapon to make it add to the damage (after all, it's just a sling on a stick). :)
Our group calls it a sling on a stick, so it uses the sling exception for slings adding strength.
Greg
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Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee or thrown weapon, including a sling, add your Strength modifier to the damage result. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies on damage rolls made with a bow that is not a composite bow.
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don’t get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.
Nothing in there about melee. I say you get 1.5 times Strength.
Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee or thrown weapon, including a sling, add your Strength modifier to the damage result. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies on damage rolls made with a bow that is not a composite bow.
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus (Strength penalties are not multiplied). You don’t get this higher Strength bonus, however, when using a light weapon with two hands.
Nothing in there about melee. I say you get 1.5 times Strength.
It's in the Equipment section (link), the listing in the Combat section only applies to melee weapons.
It's just a sling shot.
The staff-sling description clearly states that you only need one hand to fire a staff sling. The second hand is just needed to load it.
So you don't use your second hand to use a weapon (only ammo) and thus you should get the shield bonus.
Most people ignore the description and come to different results by doing so.
Made from a specially designed sling attached to a short club, a halfling sling staff can be used by a proficient wielder to devastating effect.
Description: Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling sling staff just as it does for thrown weapons. You can fire, but not load, a halfling sling staff with one hand. You can hurl ordinary stones with a halfling sling staff, but stones are not as dense or as round as bullets. Thus, such an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category smaller than you and you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls. A halfling sling staff can be used as a simple weapon that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a club of its size.
Action: Loading a halfling sling staff is a move action that requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.
Racial Specialty: Halflings treat halfling sling staves as martial weapons.
According to this it is a onehanded weapon in both, its ranged and melee use.
Onehanded weapon + bucker = shield bonus
It's just a sling shot.
Interesting Houserule
It's just a sling shot.Interesting Houserule
It's not a house rule. Look it up in Ultimate Equipment some time and you will see for yourself.
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The staff-sling description clearly states that you only need one hand to fire a staff sling. The second hand is just needed to load it.
So you don't use your second hand to use a weapon (only ammo) and thus you should get the shield bonus.Most people ignore the description and come to different results by doing so.
Huh. I wonder how they figure someone can fire a sling one handed without some sort of mechanism.
The description clearly states that it can't be shot with only one hand. If you are referring to some picture I'd say text trumps picture rules wise.
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According to this it is a onehanded weapon in both, its ranged and melee use.
Onehanded weapon + bucker = shield bonus
I admit that I was not aware that the halfling sling staff can be fired with one hand, but I don't believe it matters. The rulebook does still say if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. I would include the reloading of a weapon as using the weapon, so I would not allow the buckler to be used for defense. However, I can see other GMs ruling otherwise.
A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it's a specially built composite shortbow or longbow, or a sling.
When I read Greg Wasson's post, I also realized that I misinterpreted this line. I should have read it as A character gets no Strength bonus on damage rolls with a projectile weapon unless it's a specially built composite shortbow, a specially built longbow, or a sling. I would agree that a normal sling staff would also qualify for bonus damage due to strength (but not x1.5). My mistake.
I never said anything about the mechanics of the weapon. I just said it was a sling shot (which it is). Being able to fire it one-handed, in the rules, is no more unrealistic than being able to fire a musket several times each round. (Personally, I envision the shooter pulling back on the "sling shot" with his teeth. lol.)
You need to watch your assumptions. They can make you look a fool.
The rulebook does still say if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. I would include the reloading of a weapon as using the weapon, so I would not allow the buckler to be used for defense.
You only ever have an "off hand" when using Two-Weapon Fighting.
Assuming sloppy writing, and the intent is "In any case, if you use a weapon in your buckler hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn." you still have "use" meaning "wield" like "Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon".
If someone holds a weapon in their buckler hand, doesn't attack with it, then removes that weapon so their buckler hand is free again, they shouldn't lose the AC bonus because they didn't use that weapon. Reloading should be no different.
I never said anything about the mechanics of the weapon. I just said it was a sling shot (which it is). Being able to fire it one-handed, in the rules, is no more unrealistic than being able to fire a musket several times each round. (Personally, I envision the shooter pulling back on the "sling shot" with his teeth. lol.)
You need to watch your assumptions. They can make you look a fool.
Other than a misleading drawing how do you come to the assumption it is a sling shot?
The picture in UE is of a staff sling drawn by someone who either doesn't know what a staff sling is (perhaps actually thinking that it is a sling shot rather than a sling mounted on a staff) or wanted the halfling version to somehow look different from a standard staff sling.
While I could see someone using a halfling sling staff one-handed using a normal bullet, it would certainly be easier, and have better control, doing it two-handed. Historically the main purpose of staff slings was to fire heavier ammunition or to get higher trajectories (e.g. lobbing things over castle walls) for which two hands would be necessary.
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You only ever have an "off hand" when using Two-Weapon Fighting.
Assuming sloppy writing, and the intent is "In any case, if you use a weapon in your buckler hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn." you still have "use" meaning "wield" like "Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon".
If someone holds a weapon in their buckler hand, doesn't attack with it, then removes that weapon so their buckler hand is free again, they shouldn't lose the AC bonus because they didn't use that weapon. Reloading should be no different.
Hi Grick. I disagree with your all of your assertions, but it's no big deal. It is just an example of different GMs interpreting some things differently. To each his own.
I never said anything about the mechanics of the weapon. I just said it was a sling shot (which it is). Being able to fire it one-handed, in the rules, is no more unrealistic than being able to fire a musket several times each round. (Personally, I envision the shooter pulling back on the "sling shot" with his teeth. lol.)
You need to watch your assumptions. They can make you look a fool.
If you say a weapon was a slingshot that clearly from fluff and description is not a slingshot it is not me who looks stupid.
Firing a slingshot onehanded would be unrealistic. But as the staff sling is no slingshot that doesn't matter.
But please keep on houseruling the staffling to being a slingshot and be happy.
Edited for Netiquette
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Description: Your Strength modifier applies to damage rolls when you use a halfling sling staff just as it does for thrown weapons. You can fire, but not load, a halfling sling staff with one hand. You can hurl ordinary stones with a halfling sling staff, but stones are not as dense or as round as bullets. Thus, such an attack deals damage as if the weapon were designed for a creature one size category smaller than you and you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls. A halfling sling staff can be used as a simple weapon that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a club of its size.
Action: Loading a halfling sling staff is a move action that requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.
Racial Specialty: Halflings treat halfling sling staves as martial weapons.
Since a club is a 1 handed weapon you can add 1.5 x STR mod when wielding it in two hands. This is specific to when using it as a melee weapon.
Based on previous excerpts that have been quoted from the rules I would adjudicate that it is only 1 x STR mod when used as a projectile weapon.
I don't know if that is RAW, but it's how I read it.
Now, as far as your other question I don't have the ARG in front of me at the moment so I will refrain from commenting on the Warslinger trait at this time.
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The rulebook does still say if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. I would include the reloading of a weapon as using the weapon, so I would not allow the buckler to be used for defense.You only ever have an "off hand" when using Two-Weapon Fighting.
Assuming sloppy writing, and the intent is "In any case, if you use a weapon in your buckler hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn." you still have "use" meaning "wield" like "Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon".
If someone holds a weapon in their buckler hand, doesn't attack with it, then removes that weapon so their buckler hand is free again, they shouldn't lose the AC bonus because they didn't use that weapon. Reloading should be no different.
@Grick: Emphasis is mine.
This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it.
I tend to agree with Grick as far as using a sling staff as a ranged projectile weapon with a buckler. If you can load, aim, fire, and reload a bow or crossbow without penalty while using a buckler you should be able to do the same with a sling or sling staff.
Using the sling staff as a melee weapon with a buckler is different and as per the rules for bucklers you would take a -1 penalty to attack rolls and lose the shield bonus.
Edit: for iPad typing problems
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@Provos: After consulting ARG I see no reason why you wouldn't get the AC benefit of the buckler when using the sling staff as a ranged weapon. Being that Warslinger doesn't modify how a Halfling uses/wields a sling staff as a melee weapon you would lose the AC bonus in those situations - as normal.
Add a spear at the end and get a hoopak!
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Does anyone know the PFS answer to whether the buckler AC bonus is applied when using a halfling sling staff at range?
The AC bonus would apply for tossing the bullets, as the halfling sling staff can be used to throw one-handed. The question boils down to is loading the sling-staff count as using the sling-staff as a weapon?
My thought is no, because even though I reload it, I don't have to use the weapon to attack. You can use the buckler hand for other things and still get the AC, so I don't see a difference.
But, getting any official PFS guideline would be helpful.
Thanks!
Unfortunately, I don't think you will see an official ruling on a sling-staff/buckler.
However, the buckler is described as follows:
Buckler: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler's AC bonus until your next turn. You can't make a shield bash with a buckler.
As a PFS GM, I would interpret the bold section to mean that using your off-hand to manipulate a weapon in any way means the shield bonus is lost until your next turn.
As a PFS GM, I would interpret the bold section to mean that using your off-hand to manipulate a weapon in any way means the shield bonus is lost until your next turn.You can cast a spell with a buckler (or light shield) in one hand and a mace in the other by moving the mace to the shield hand, casting the spell, and moving it back. That is manipulating the weapon without losing the shield bonus.
Good catch.
It's just a sling shot.
Please check fustibale in Wiki ...
Edit: You'll be better with googling.
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You can cast a spell with a buckler (or light shield) in one hand and a mace in the other by moving the mace to the shield hand, casting the spell, and moving it back. That is manipulating the weapon without losing the shield bonus.
First, 'manipulation' is my word, not the one in the description of the buckler. However, I think it better differentiates how the rule should be applied. They use 'use', which is a generic term (that many threads have been created about in this forum).
Regardless, the word 'manipulation' normally has a level of complexity attached to it. Moving a mace from one hand to another is a simple action and not one I would refer to as manipulation. Knocking an arrow or bolt, targeting, and firing is something that would require some level of skilled manipulation.
Knocking an arrow or bolt, targeting, and firing is something that would require some level of skilled manipulation.
I agree. But with the staff sling you just need to move a little stone into the sling pouch. More or less the same as moving a mace from one hand to the other.
Remember: You don't need two hands to fire a staff sling. Just to reload one.
This has pictures of actual sling staves.
Thanks for the info Darth.
Adaptive Composite Sling Staff!
Recommended by halflings everywhere.
Thanks for the info Darth.
Despite the pathfinder rules, it seems that a real sling staff needs two hands to fire.
I like how the first picture makes it look like a lacrosse stick
Adaptive Composite Sling Staff!
Recommended by halflings everywhere.
Actually, you don't need either a composite or adaptive sling staff. You get your strength bonus already.
(FWIW, I think the slingshot-like picture in the book was intended to be more like a flask thrower, or as someone pointed out, a lacrosse stick.)