| Terranigma |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I currently GM for a homebrew campaign and, playing d20-system (D&D/PF) for several years already, I wanted to try to do things a bit more different as routine has sneaked in over the course of time. That being sad, I switched to PF as D&D became more and more a game I couldn't enjoy anymore - it encouraged players so tremendously to powergame and felt more like a dungeoncrawler, as the official material supported that kind of gameplay. While it's all up to the GM how the campaign works, now I took over - we're playing PF as being said - and I want to turn the game in a little bit different direction in two aspects.
First, it's more orientated towards a steampunk-style world. Magic is, if existent, usually consider as superstituion, pagan religious stuff noone takes really serious. There is magic, but I want to become magic again more 'magical' and mysterious. D&D, and sadly PF as well, treats magic like some sort of tool you can easily buy at a shop and usually, is degraded to mere mechanics - there's nothing magical or special about magic in usual D&D/PF-campaigns. Therefore, magic is very rare and there won't be any Shortsword+1 or such. Instead, I've substituted those more 'mechanical' progressions into mundane, non-magical items. If you want a better sword, get a better blade for it. If you want to improve your leather armor, get some harder material to improve it. On one side, I don't change 'too' much about the overall balance - even though the characters are weaker due to the lack of magic 'tools' - but present it in a more 'low-magic'-fashion and encourage the players to make frequent use of the craft-skills in order to improve their equipment by themselves.
That being said, I'm happy with it so far. Is kinda lot of work as I have to write most of the material myself but I like it, because magic - when it appears - is usually stranger and more powerful. Anyway, now here's where I need some help and advice:
Half a year ago I ran a Realms of Cthulhu (Savage Worlds)-campaign and it was a blast, because the game felt so gritty and even the players were - finally! - acting cautiously and tactically as they knew that a wrong step might kill them. It is a very intense system and only then I realized how I love such deadly system and how much I've become to dislike the high-fantasy-superhero-marvel-epic feeling of D&D/PF. When I first played D&D, it was the AD&D system which was nowhere as 'powergamingly' as it is nowadays. Anyway, I currently search for some EASY to include ways to change the pace and feel of PF a bit.
Cutting out most magic and substituting it with non-magical means was a good start. Still, I'm still a bit puuzled how to turn PF a bit more into a grittier fashion. I don't speak of horror and such but a fight - if taken - should be deadly. I could, of course, simply tweak the numbers of the enemies but that wouldn't do the job; the enemies would feel stronger but the players wouldn't feel less powerful after all. I'd like to work a bit more with moral, the way armour works, the way hit points work - I mean, you can be beaten down to 1 HP and still can act as you havn't received a scratch, according to rules. I know there are some official variant-rules: have you ever tried them out and can give me some feedback on how it turned out or do you have any other ideas how to 'tone down' PF a bit. The work-in-progress products sadly go in the right opposite direction, turning players in even bigger monster/heroes, thinking, that bigger numbers make a game more fun or even epic.
However, do you have any EASY to implement ideas - or maybe even some more difficult ones? The alternative systems for armour and hit points look like they require a lot of calculations and I'm no huge fan of spending all the time doing math and calculating weird formulas in order to play a game. The more simply and straightforward, the better. I like PF and D&D, but I somehow miss the feeling I got when I've GMd Realms of Culthu and somehow want to bring it back, making the player's character again a bit more 'human'. Yes, even the dwarves and elves, but you get the point! :P
| Cult of Vorg |
D20 Call of Cthulu applies the massive damage fortitude save any time you take more than 10 damage from a single hit, and has great magic and sanity systems.
Black Company RPG applies that save for any damage taken in the surprise round.
If death is too much, you could use a critical hit chart or deck instead, or adjust the threshold as desired. Even when it's a 1 check, having to make the save is scary.
| Odraude |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is some advice from someone that has been in a lot of terrible low-magic games.
First off, if you are doing a low-magic item, no caster campaign, please Please PLEASE watch what you throw at the players from the Bestiary. Really look at what they are going up against, especially if they have powerful special abilities that would require magic to cure. It can get very annoying when you are a group going against shadow demons. Or beholders. Or wraiths. In fact, the game I was in was less DnD and more "Run the f#!& away from everything and get nothing accomplished". Very frustrating. Mind you, I'm not saying the occasional magic creature is bad, but you have to really calibrate what your players can handle.
Secondly, the variant rules for wounds and vigor, in my opinion, work pretty well. I've used them in a campaign for two months before the campaign ended and they were good. There should be some other ones here by Evil Lincoln that he made up. Armor as DR I haven't used, but I feel that it favors platemail too much over agile characters. Everyone becomes easier to hit, but the armor at least gives good DR to the armor wearers. I've thought about putting in a dodge or parry mechanic for the agile fighters to use.
Thirdly, look at the rules for E6. It might be up your alley for some lower style adventures. They are free, easy to find, and even easier to convert. Some people play E8 for Pathfinder, since many classes come into their own at level 8. E6 stops at 6 because it barricades things like divination.
Fourthly, please, don't make every single fight one for their lives. Much like stories, roleplaying games have a certain pacing to them. If you are constantly throwing APL+3 every encounter, or your players are always being ambushed or always fighting against tactically superior foes, there will be a time where encounter fatigue sets in. Players will be out of resources after two fights. Many players might get discouraged that despite their tactics, their characters are always on the brink of dying or worse, always dying. It'll come to a point where instead of "playing more tactically" and "fearing death", the complete opposite happens and your players become apathetic to the story and their character's well-being. Some people might just make a min-maxed beefcake just for survival and to spite both the story and the GM, instead of making the more well-rounded characters you are looking for.
I was in a low magic campaign once where every game, someone died. Sometimes it was poor tactics, but mostly, it was monsters with powers beyond our scope that we couldn't escape from. The GM LOVED this gritty, no-hope, Arkham Horror-type game, but after awhile, we got really sick of it. Despite our complaints, things only got worse, until finally, we all just made twinked out characters and just became a murderous band of adventurers. That campaigned crashed and burned and it took a long time before anyone played with that GM again.
Of course, the opposite is true. Making every encounter a cakewalk makes the game dull and players a bit too cocky. I was once in a game where the final boss was a level 10 aristocrat solo encounter... I think we killed him in one hit before escape. Was very anticlimactic and terrible. Point is, it's okay to have some easy fighters here and there, mixed in with a couple hard ones. Remember that your players don't know the encounter is easy going in; you do. In addition, all of your bad guys will have all of their resources at their disposal. HP, Spells, etc. Meanwhile, the players will probably have used some ammunition, spells, or might be damaged from a previous fight, making each subsequent fight harder and harder. Keep that in mind when designing encounters.
And lastly, make sure your players know ahead of time what kind of game they are getting into. This style of gaming isn't for everyone, so you at least want them to know so they can prepare for it, express concerns, or simply not play. I know for me, as much as I love Lovecraft, I'd probably not want to play in a Call of Cthulhu game.
Good luck and remember, calibrate the expectations of your players.
| Anonymous Visitor 163 576 |
Luke Crane swears that however much time you spend writing house rules, you should have spent that time finding an alternate game to play.
But since you're here...
Wounds and vitality are a good move
Try banning certain spells, the one's you hate, and not the whole magic system.
+1 be careful with monsters. Low magic usually works well with several bad guys, not one super monster
+1 for E6
Take a look at Sanity rules from Freeport, or the whole setting.
Reckless
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Luke Crane swears that however much time you spend writing house rules, you should have spent that time finding an alternate game to play.
Yes, you want to run GURPS. Maybe Fantasy Hero. Even Runequest/BRP without the magic overlays would work. These systems cater to what you're looking for much more easily than Pathfinder.
And they're all pretty interesting systems in their own right.
GURPS has a Steampunk Sourcebook, Chaosium has A supplement that could be useful for BRP.
Making Pathfinder grittier requires reworking Hit Points, and, as a result, damage output.
The best method for this at present is the wounds and vigor system, where critical hits, sneak attack, etc. can mess you up.
Wounds and Vigor also make resource management in regards to healing a bit "grittier". You can (and do) recover Vigor pretty easily, but wounds take awhile to heal.
Another option for grittier combat would be to create condition chains and have wounds (or crits) inflict conditions as well as HP loss.
Stealing from Mutants and Masterminds 3e and using their conditions would be the best way to keep things on an even playing field.