Are you only allowed access to bonus languages or can you chose any?
Are you only allowed access to bonus languages or can you chose any?
When you take a level of linguistics, you can choose any language.
Of course it is subject to GM adjudication, whether you are able to choose a certain language or not (in my opinion it could harm the immersion in the game, if a PC suddenly learned 5 different languages, which she had no previous experience with).
Are you only allowed access to bonus languages or can you chose any?When you take a level of linguistics, you can choose any language.
Of course it is subject to GM adjudication, whether you are able to choose a certain language or not (in my opinion it could harm the immersion in the game, if a PC suddenly learned 5 different languages, which she had no previous experience with).
Secret languages, such as druidic, are not allowed.
How about treant?
Treant is fine. It has no restrictions listed anywhere in the rules.
Probably, but then you'd have a lot of druids trying to take it back.
Hmm what if you dominate a Druid can you learn Druidic?
That would be a very mean thing to do.
A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities (including her animal companion, but not including weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She cannot thereafter gain levels as a druid until she atones (see the atonement spell description).
Secret languages, such as druidic, are not allowed.
Yes they are. Druidic is even mentioned in the Linguistics skill entry. Why list it if no one can ever gain it?
Linguistics can be used to learn any language.
(Also, the only ways to know a language are to either start the game with it, or buy it with Linguistics. If only druids start with Druidic, and it can't be learned by spending skill ranks, then how could a druid ever teach druidic to non-druids as suggested is possible in the druid class?)
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The description of the Linguistics skill says that Druidic is spoken by Druids only (emphasis mine).
One could, I suppse, take a rank in Linguistics and then somehow coerce, trick or bribe a Druid into teaching him the language.
That list is only the most typical speakers. For druidic, the only typical speakers are druids. If you were banned from taking druidic with Linguistics, it would not appear in the table at all. Why put a banned language in the middle of a list of possible languages to choose from?
Learn a Language: Whenever you put a rank into this skill, you learn to speak and read a new language. Common languages (and their typical speakers) include the following.
The description of the Linguistics skill says that Druidic is spoken by Druids only (emphasis mine).
One could, I suppse, take a rank in Linguistics and then somehow coerce, trick or bribe a Druid into teaching him the language.That list is only the most typical speakers. For druidic, the only typical speakers are druids. If you were banned from taking druidic with Linguistics, it would not appear in the table at all.
Learn a Language: Whenever you put a rank into this skill, you learn to speak and read a new language. Common languages (and their typical speakers) include the following.
You appear to be right (although I think many DMs would disallow it). I must have just assumed that was an element of the linguistics skill as the limitation to druids is listed with every other mention of druidic.
RAW linguistics is pretty messed up as it is (learning a whole new language is as hard as becoming 5% more effective at climbing?). This just adds some gravy to that.
I stand by my earlier statement. One needs a teacher to learn a language. Only a druid can teach Druidic, and then only at a terrible price.
You could make that argument about most skills. RAW just doesn't support needing a teacher; if you want to implement that as a house rule, go for it. I know I do.
Its assumed you find a teacher when you spend the skill rank in Linguistics. Just like its assumed you find a teacher for any other language.
IF learning druidic through Linguistics required some special investment, it would have said so. It is learned like every other skill in the game - you spend the skill rank, and its assumed you do/have done whatever is necessary to learn it off-screen.
Its assumed you find a teacher when you spend the skill rank in Linguistics. Just like its assumed you find a teacher for any other language.
IF learning druidic through Linguistics required some special investment, it would have said so. It is learned like every other skill in the game - you spend the skill rank, and its assumed you do/have done whatever is necessary to learn it off-screen.
So you just assume that you somehow find a druid who is happy to spend the time teaching you a secret language and is not at all worried about the fact that they will lose all druid spells and abilities.....?
I stand by my earlier statement. One needs a teacher to learn a language. Only a druid can teach Druidic, and then only at a terrible price.You could make that argument about most skills. RAW just doesn't support needing a teacher; if you want to implement that as a house rule, go for it. I know I do.
Which other "most" skills have the same consequences as those that would be faced by a druid who teaches a non-druid how to speak Druidic?
Some skills can be self taught, or the increase in ranks covers the effects of ongoing practice. It isn't quite the same with languages given that going from zero to one skill point takes you from, effectively, non-proficient to fluent.
A druid also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids, which she learns upon becoming a 1st-level druid. Druidic is a free language for a druid; that is, she knows it in addition to her regular allotment of languages and it doesn’t take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids.
Seems pretty clear to me. Then we have that in linguistics it lists druids as the only ones to speak Druidic by saying: druids only.
Now, some have asked 'why include it in linguistics then?'. Well lets see, what would happen if they had not? Some people would be asking 'why isn't druidic listed? Even if we cannot learn it there should be a list of all of the common languages!'.
It is a listing of common languages. Nothing more. It does not provide any exception to the rule that druids are the only ones who can learn this language.
- Gauss
The whole Druid argument aside, in my games we assume either a fellow party member is teaching you the language or you can find a teacher some other way and pay for it somehow. Time in service or gold or missions etc. It has worked so far.
As for learning Druidic, no one has asked to do so so far so I will kick that can down the road until they do. ;-)
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The description of the Linguistics skill says that Druidic is spoken by Druids only (emphasis mine).
One could, I suppse, take a rank in Linguistics and then somehow coerce, trick or bribe a Druid into teaching him the language.That list is only the most typical speakers. For druidic, the only typical speakers are druids. If you were banned from taking druidic with Linguistics, it would not appear in the table at all. Why put a banned language in the middle of a list of possible languages to choose from?
For reference, because it is a common language.
Whenever you put a rank into this skill, you learn to speak and read a new language. Common languages (and their typical speakers) are listed below.
...
Druidic
Spoken By: Druids (only)Druidic is a secret language known only to druids. It is a free language for a druid; that is, it doesn't take up a language slot. Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids and has its own alphabet.
This seems absolutely clear to me. The description says you learn to speak a new language. It does not explicitly say you can learn any language listed, including secret ones, only that common languages are listed. It then very explicitly says that druidic is a secret language known only to druids, not "to druids and anyone willing to spend a skill point on Linguistics," and that Druids are forbidden to teach this language to nondruids. Given that there's nothing explicitly saying you can spend a skill point to learn Druidic, and quite a bit implying you can't, you cannot learn it that easily. This is a common sense issue. You can teach yourself many skills, or learn from books, but you can't teach yourself a language and common-druidic dictionaries do not exist (that's the point of it being secret). If you are able to within the campaign find yourself a druidic teacher who is willing to violate the rule of secrecy to teach you the language, you may do so, but it is entirely at the discretion of the DM.
There are two options I can think of for druids-in-training learning the language. The first is for the student to learn the language during an extended training period. In this period the student learns the language and other elements of druidic practice. If the student does not become a proper druid at the end of the training period, the teacher loses their druidic abilities. This would encourage very close student-teacher relationships between druids, with an element of trust on the part of the teacher who is staking their power on the student. Alternatively, druids could gain knowledge of the language magically as a result of being invested with druidic powers by nature itself. Either or both of these options could be used, depending on the flavour desired.
I stand by my earlier statement. One needs a teacher to learn a language. Only a druid can teach Druidic, and then only at a terrible price.You could make that argument about most skills. RAW just doesn't support needing a teacher; if you want to implement that as a house rule, go for it. I know I do.Which other "most" skills have the same consequences as those that would be faced by a druid who teaches a non-druid how to speak Druidic?
Some skills can be self taught, or the increase in ranks covers the effects of ongoing practice. It isn't quite the same with languages given that going from zero to one skill point takes you from, effectively, non-proficient to fluent.
If you'll re-read my post, you will see I am talking about linguistics in general. I can see how it could be interpreted differently due to the vagaries of the English language. Learning a new language is hard, at least as hard as learning about the fundamentals of magic (Knowledge(arcana)). I hold that linguistics in general is a poorly handled skill. 1 skill point to fluency is crazy (although not in game balance terms, given the existence of comprehend languages and friends).
To respond to your query: you could learn druidic from a non-druid. One who has already beaten up/dominated a druid.
Side note: Druidic is a pretty silly idea in general. All these druids who have radically different agendas speak the same secret language and never betray it? The only time I have used druidic in a setting was a form spoken by a specific circle of aquatic druids. Such a limited deployment seems more logical.
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In addition with spells like Tongues and Comprehend Language I am not sure how Drudic would stay a secret for long.
Reason number two for druidic to be somehow magically guarded. In fact, I think I'll implement that in my next campaign. Comprehend Languages and Tongues "translate" Druidic but do not confer the ability to actually understand or speak it.