Having some trouble parsing this ability.
Howl (Su) A howler's constant howling is a grating, exhausting baying that can drive listeners insane. All beings other than outsiders within 120 feet of a howling howler must succeed on a DC 12 Will save or become cursed by the creature's howl. Once a creature becomes cursed in this way, she takes no additional penalty for being exposed to additional howlers' howls until the current howler curse is lifted. This is a sonic mind-affecting effect. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Is the 'constant howling' a piece of flavor text, or does it indicate this ability is constantly active? I read it as being flavor text and that the howl, like the howls and bays of many other creatures, was a standard action (like any SU that doesn't specify).
Thoughts?
I just ran a PFS adventure with these guys. I treated it as constant, so the PCs had to save every round. The DC is low and the effect is fairly minor (even for Wisdom dependent casters). Of the few who failed, no one was actually inconvienced by it. Except for casting Lesser Restoration afterwards.
It's a standard action. Calling it "constant" simply implies the howler uses it a lot.
The Terrible Zodin is expressing what a player in my group thinks and mplindustries is expressing my (exact) reasoning. Edit: Also, most of these constant abilities seem to be placed as 'auras'.
One thing that can be said for 4E, all those keywords and the statblock format really nip these kinds of problems in the butt.
It's a standard action. Calling it "constant" simply implies the howler uses it a lot.
Where does it mention that the howler's howl is a standard action?
Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
These can't be disrupted in combat and generally don't provoke attacks of opportunity. They aren't subject to spell resistance, counterspells, or dispel magic, and don't function in antimagic areas.
Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table: Special Ability Types for a summary of the types of special abilities.
I've searched supernatural abilities and unless i missed something it would seem that they are either always active or specify an action to use. (See Common Terms above.)
Howl doesn't mention anything other than being constant.
One thing that can be said for 4E, all those keywords and the statblock format really make these nip these kinds of problems in the butt.
Firstly, no matter which system you use there will be errors even with 4E.
Secondly, I've found the best way to nip these kinds of problems in the butt, would be to actually read the rules and try not to read into what you think it does and just use it for what it actually does.
In this case Howl being constant. (Both in fluff and mechanic.)
If i'm wrong someone please correct me.
If i'm wrong someone please correct me.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Your welcome.
The problem, as my OP states, is whether the "constant howling" is flavor text or rules text. Abilities such as this (if it were constantly active) are usually classified as auras; the main difference being the connected curse. I also do not know of many 'constant' special attacks, but that could just be that I am mainly familiar with CR < ~8 monsters.
Secondly, I've found the best way to nip these kinds of problems in the butt, would be to actually read the rules and try not to read into what you think it does and just use it for what it actually does.
Right back at you slick. You might have noticed that Pathfinder doesn't organize its rules very well (otherwise you might have found the text I quoted).
|
I believe it is a constant ability.
However, I agree that the RAW imply it is a Standard, by the line Whale quoted and by the "Actions in Combat" table - which both state that a Supernatural ability is a Standard by default.
EDIT: I will continue to run it as constant, but will have to be prepared to say it is a "house rule" if called on it in absence of clarification.
Don't be smug and condescending Whale_Cancer.
Saying things like "Your welcome." when i haven't thanked you yet and saying "Right back at you slick." makes you sound like a jerk.
I posted nothing that should have offended you. I made a blanket statement that all systems suffer from mess ups and that the major problem I've seen on forums is the "people", not just you or me, (hence the blanket statement)looking to much into the wording and twisting it one way or another to fit their interpretation.
Otherwise, where did you get that quote from? I couldn't find it with the search function on the SRD.
Edit: Never-mind i found it.
Don't be smug and condescending Whale_Cancer.
Saying things like "Your welcome." when i haven't thanked you yet and saying "Right back at you slick." makes you sound like a jerk.
I posted nothing that should have offended you. I made a blanket statement that all systems suffer from mess ups and that the major problem I've seen on forums is the "people", not just you or me, (hence the blanket statement)looking to much into the wording and twisting it one way or another to fit their interpretation.
Otherwise, where did you get that quote from? I couldn't find it with the search function on the SRD.
I don't think you realize how much of a jerk you come off as. At least in the two threads in which I have interacted with you. You said the best way to deal with these rules issues is to "actually read the rules and try not to read into what you think it does and just use it for what it actually does." That is a dickish thing to say, especially given the existence of the text I quoted stating it is usually a standard action. Why not just say "Hey, I don't see anywhere where it suggests that a SU should be considered a standard action? Why are you assuming that?"
Don't be smug and condescending Whale_Cancer.
Saying things like "Your welcome." when i haven't thanked you yet and saying "Right back at you slick." makes you sound like a jerk.
I posted nothing that should have offended you. I made a blanket statement that all systems suffer from mess ups and that the major problem I've seen on forums is the "people", not just you or me, (hence the blanket statement)looking to much into the wording and twisting it one way or another to fit their interpretation.
Otherwise, where did you get that quote from? I couldn't find it with the search function on the SRD.
I don't think you realize how much of a jerk you come off as. At least in the two threads in which I have interacted with you. You said the best way to deal with these rules issues is to "actually read the rules and try not to read into what you think it does and just use it for what it actually does." That is a dickish thing to say, especially given the existence of the text I quoted stating it is usually a standard action. Why not just say "Hey, I don't see anywhere where it suggests that a SU should be considered a standard action? Why are you assuming that?"
You our more than welcome to think how i state arguments and questions as being a jerk. I made no personal attack against you, that is the best i can do. If your hind quarters are still sore by a blanket statement that had nothing to do with you other than your statement prompted the response (which itself was a blanket statement) there is nothing i can do about that.
I guess i'll just have to continue on in my life now knowing that some of my thoughts and opinions are "dickish". Though please don't worry for me, i shall put on a brave face, and continue to simply do what I've been doing on these forums with much apathy.
Otherwise, now seeing what i missed do to a silly search engine (i shall have to not trust it as much)i do see the potential problem. Some will say Standard and others will say constant, i will simply stay out of it until it is answered.
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Guys, just Flag and move on instead of escalating.
Or maybe shake virtual hands and go back and remove the offending statements while you are still in the edit window.
We said our goodbyes, it's all fine like wine.
[Edit: a Brain in a Jar vs an Aboleth sounds like it could be the plot of my next campaign...]
Guys, just Flag and move on instead of escalating.
Or maybe shake virtual hands and go back and remove the offending statements while you are still in the edit window.
It seems to be quite fine to me. We each said our parts and moved on. Plus it didn't really escalate to much of anything, it looks like a pair of slightly irritated gentleman had words with each other. (At least it's better than some stuff on these boards.)
Edit: Look at that we even have common cause now, thanks to Scribbling Rambler.