Surprise Spells, Spellstrike and Sneak attacks

[willhob]

Coming here to check my reading of the rules. I'm building a villain NPC in a home encounter with PrC levels in Arcane Trickster, with a base in Ninja and Magus.

Regarding Arcane Trickster, the caster can turn themselves invisible at will, even if already covered by smoke. Would miss chances for different kinds of concealment would apply separately?

Spellstrike has no listed action cost, implying its part of the action of casting a spell. So can it be used twice in one turn, as part of a dual-wielding with a quickened spell, or alternatively with a speed weapon? Is it possible for this ability to be used with thrown or ranged weapons?

Surprise Spells likewise has no listed action cost, implying that it could be used whenever a spell is cast (in tandem with Spellstrike).

So if hiding with Stealth, and invisible in a cloud of smoke the targets are denied their dexterity bonus to AC. Does this allows for the sneak attack damage to be added to both the quickened Spell strike and the "normal" spell strike? Furthermore could the sneak attack damage also be added for the attack part of the damage as well as the spell damage? Surprise Spell does not suggest the damage is substituted, but rather added.

This seems overpowered when you consider a high level villain using a +5 Unholy, Speed Rapier or +5 Unholy Speed Katana and Corrosive Consumption or Intensified Shocking Grasp with the trait Magical Knack, but I am having trouble finding anything in the SRD that says it can't be done. So the total damage ends up as something like this:

(Weapon Damage + weapon enhancement bonuses + power attack damage) +(Spell damage + sneak attack) + sneak attack damage

with a critical being

(Weapon Damage + power attack damage) * 2 + weapon enhancement bonuses +(Spell damage + sneak attack) * 2 + sneak attack damage

[Grick]

willhob wrote:

Would miss chances for different kinds of concealment would apply separately?

Concealment: "Multiple concealment conditions do not stack."

willhob wrote:

Spellstrike has no listed action cost, implying its part of the action of casting a spell.

There is no action. It is not part of casting.

Any time you could deliver a magus touch spell you cast, Spellstrike lets you use a melee weapon to do so.

willhob wrote:

So can it be used twice in one turn, as part of a dual-wielding with a quickened spell, or alternatively with a speed weapon?

It can be used as often as you are able to deliver a touch spell.

If you cast a quickened touch spell, that's a swift action, and it lets you make a touch attack as a free action any time during your turn. Spellstrike lets you deliver that touch with your weapon.

If you're holding the charge of a touch spell, and you full-attack, the spell can discharge with the first hit. If the spell allows multiple touches, like Chill Touch, then the first CL number of hits will deliver the spell.

willhob wrote:

Is it possible for this ability to be used with thrown or ranged weapons?

Technically yes, but only if you're making a melee attack with it. If you make a ranged attack, Spellstrike doesn't work.

willhob wrote:

Surprise Spells likewise has no listed action cost, implying that it could be used whenever a spell is cast (in tandem with Spellstrike).

Addressed this in your other thread, but touch spells work with sneak attack anyway, so surprise spells doesn't really help.

willhob wrote:

So if hiding with Stealth, and invisible in a cloud of smoke the targets are denied their dexterity bonus to AC. Does this allows for the sneak attack damage to be added to both the quickened Spell strike and the "normal" spell strike? Furthermore could the sneak attack damage also be added for the attack part of the damage as well as the spell damage? Surprise Spell does not suggest the damage is substituted, but rather added.

Looks OK, but in this case, surprise spells isn't doing anything, since it only works against flat-footed opponents, not opponents who are merely denied dex to AC.

willhob wrote:

This seems overpowered when you consider a high level villain

Custom high level villains can be overpowered, especially when combined with burst-damage builds.

Here's A Guide to Touch Spells, Spellstrike, and Spell Combat.

[Matt2VK]

Something else to be careful of -

Some of your players might call FOUL on the invisible and in smoke thing. As the smoke could not go into the spot your villain is in. So they might claim that they know where the villain is, they just can't see him.

[willhob]

It's possible, but this is a pretty cheesed up campaign and the guy is an "Arcane Trickster". He intends to begin combat with even more underhanded moves that are meant to distract, draw attention, divide the party as much as possible while he picks them off. The smoke can go into his tile, because he will be using a Blink effect heh

[Grick]

willhob wrote:

The smoke can go into his tile, because he will be using a Blink effect heh

Another thing to remember, if the smoke is in the player squares, they should also have concealment, which means no sneak attack. (He can probably still get SA dice from surprise spells, but not after that)