THeres been more than a few threads about the monk sucking but I would be more interested in finding out whats more important for a monk or at least what do people on these forum think. I'm currently redesigning the monk and either way I go its problems with hitting will be resolved. This leaves to elements I can focus on for the class.
1. Mobility. The monk is fast but it conflicts with its flurry ability.
2. Flurry. The monk gets multiple attacks but in conflcts with its mobility thing.
Anyway what do you think feels rigt for the class if one had to pick one of them. The basica idea I am having is
Option 1. Mobilty. If you remember the Scout class in 3.5 ed this is a similar idea. My idea so far is to have this aspect focus on 1 atack a round but making it a big one to compete with archers and two handed wepaon users and the like. Such an attack could in theory deal more damge than a fighter or even a barbarian only having 1 attack. The basic idea will be somehting like the Soucts skirmish ability of steroids.
+1 enhancement bonus every 3 levels to hit/damage.
Flurry. Monk adds his level to damage.
Skirmish (monk moves 10'+ in a round.
Level
1 +1/1d6
3 +2/2d6
5 +3/3d6
7 +4/4d6
etc
The +1 is a bonus to hit and AC, the 1d6 is a bonus to damage. A level 9 monk for example would deal base damage +12 +5d6 damage and gain +5 to hit and AC as long as he moved 10' in a round. Full attacking he would gain +9 on all damage.
Option 2.
Similar to the exiisting monk but overhauling the class. Monk is built around the a pounce ability that lets them move+ full attack. Flurry will be similar to what it is now. Monk will probably get a skirmish ability to hit but not the extra dice to damage the above example gets.
Both builds will have improved ACs and the like over the current monk and will get an enhancement bonus to hit and damage with unarmed attacks topping out at +5 or maybe even +6 to hit/damage. Yes I am aware the 1st option will let monks deal alot of damage in one hit but a barbarian or paladin can deal a simialr amount with a keen falchion, archers can full attack, fighters can be built in various ways, dervish dance+magus etc. Neither example is set in stone just throwing around ideas. THe main thing is mobilty vs flurry whats more "monkish" to you.
Dotting.
MA
Surely this thread will add something new and original to the monk discussions - something that has not before been covered in any of the 1500-plus-post-threads that exist already.
Mobility.
Flurry is a nice concept but it's so poorly implemented it's sad.
When I build a character with Flurry and then immediately do better when I exchange him for a Monk with no Flurry I think it kinda speaks for itself.
On the off chance something sticks around long enough for you to hit it you're left underwhelmed.
Iunno. In my humble opinion, something like Master of Many Styles should be the base class. You have more mobility, flexibility, and damage per hit potential (or I do so far anyway) than a standard Monk. Or all of that combined anyway, since you have to pick either mobility or damage on a standard Monk, and you never get that much flexibility.
I think that the problem with the monk... is that its a MONK.
just like the barbarian the monk is too heavily influenced by the class trying to match the name.
Surely this thread will add something new and original to the monk discussions - something that has not before been covered in any of the 1500-plus-post-threads that exist already.
I'm asking for advice on 2 ideas I have had for my own monk rewrite, not what others have thoguht up or are planning on doing.
Build some monks with your changes, do the math, and see how they stack up to some control classes (barbarians, fighters, the original monk, etc.). Try to stack as many damage bonuses on as you can see if it breaks.
I'm asking for advice on 2 ideas I have had for my own monk rewrite, not what others have thoguht up or are planning on doing.
Your ideas seem more like a new monk archetype than a monk rewrite. It would be easier for others to persuade GMs to allow the changes if they were presented as a 3rd party archetype.
Skirmish (monk moves 10'+ in a round.
Level
1 +1/1d6
3 +2/2d6
5 +3/3d6
7 +4/4d6
etc
The +1 is a bonus to hit and AC, the 1d6 is a bonus to damage. A level 9 monk for example would deal base damage +12 +5d6 damage and gain +5 to hit and AC as long as he moved 10' in a round. Full attacking he would gain +9 on all damage.
That bonus damage as the same progression as a rogue's Sneak Attack damage. Is the only requirement is that the monk moves at least 10 feet beforehand? And if the monk does not move then he may flurry instead? That is awfully powerful. I would add extra constraints or lessen the extra damage.
Option 2.
Similar to the existing monk but overhauling the class. Monk is built around a pounce ability that lets them move+ full attack. Flurry will be similar to what it is now. Monk will probably get a skirmish ability to hit but not the extra dice to damage the above example gets.
If we treat this as an archetype, this ability would replace Flurry of Blows, which would mean that making a full attack would do little for a monk below 8th level. If the monk keeps Flurry of Blows, move + full attack is too powerful, especially as a one-level dip in monk for a class that has a more effective full attack than a monk.
What might be more interesting would be to allow the mobility monk to make a single attack at the end of a move action. Then the monk could get two attacks a turn at first level. For example:
Flying Leap Attack (Ex): If a monk ends a move action with a successful long jump, he may make make an Acrobatics check against an adjacent opponent's CMD. He gains +1 to this check for every 5 feet in the jump. If he succeeds, he may make a single attack against that opponent as part of the move action. This ability replaces Flurry of Blows.
I'm asking for advice on 2 ideas I have had for my own monk rewrite, not what others have thoguht up or are planning on doing.Your ideas seem more like a new monk archetype than a monk rewrite. It would be easier for others to persuade GMs to allow the changes if they were presented as a 3rd party archetype.
Skirmish (monk moves 10'+ in a round.
Level
1 +1/1d6
3 +2/2d6
5 +3/3d6
7 +4/4d6
etc
The +1 is a bonus to hit and AC, the 1d6 is a bonus to damage. A level 9 monk for example would deal base damage +12 +5d6 damage and gain +5 to hit and AC as long as he moved 10' in a round. Full attacking he would gain +9 on all damage.That bonus damage as the same progression as a rogue's Sneak Attack damage. Is the only requirement is that the monk moves at least 10 feet beforehand? And if the monk does not move then he may flurry instead? That is awfully powerful. I would add extra constraints or lessen the extra damage.
Option 2.
Similar to the existing monk but overhauling the class. Monk is built around a pounce ability that lets them move+ full attack. Flurry will be similar to what it is now. Monk will probably get a skirmish ability to hit but not the extra dice to damage the above example gets.If we treat this as an archetype, this ability would replace Flurry of Blows, which would mean that making a full attack would do little for a monk below 8th level. If the monk keeps Flurry of Blows, move + full attack is too powerful, especially as a one-level dip in monk for a class that has a more effective full attack than a monk.
What might be more interesting would be to allow the mobility monk to make a single attack at the end of a move action. Then the monk could get two attacks a turn at first level. For example:
Flying Leap Attack (Ex): If a monk ends a move action with a successful long jump, he may make make an Acrobatics check against an adjacent opponent's CMD. He gains +1 to...
Flurry is now a static bonus to damage where the monk adds his monk level to damage. My monks unarmed attacks also gain a +5 enhancement bonus to hit as well. Ignoring ability score modifications by level 20 this monk can have.
+5 enhancement to hit/damage.
BAB +15
+20 damage bonus
2d10 base damage
and if it moves 10'+
+10 to hit/AC
+10d6 damage
Monk is hitting someone for around +30+ aility scores/other modifiers to hit, and an average base damage of 66+ other modifiers.
My idea is to have the Monk be very good at a single attack and be highly mobile with a great AC. I'm not to worried about the damage part but the AC may be a bit insane as it won't be to hard to get an AC in the 40's and 50's but the idea is to make the monk good at somehting that other classes do not really get. I suspect its DPM will be lower than some of the other classes.
Anyway I can add a word.document here for people to look at?
I only today discovered this guy's fix for the 3E monk, but I actually like it better than my own fixes.
The feat and alternate class feature options are great, too. Should probably just switch Slow Fall w/ Sense the Void, though, his monk can get Tumble result of 100 eventually, which makes slow fall pointless (in the epic rules, a DC 100 tumble check lets you ignore all falling damage).
The monk for me has become a dip class. 2 levels means your martial characters have great saves, 2 bonus feats, evasion, IUS and wis to AC for jailbreaks. MoMS is dip tastic!
And zen archer is 100% fine.
Base monk does blow. I dunno about giving monks +level to damage, skirmish attacks, a big boost to AC and free enchancement bonuses in exchange for flurry. I understand the problems with it as is, but right now I don't see how this change works. Give him vital strike and a size increase and he breaks faces while having high AC and perfect saves.
^That would be kinda interesting to see.
Level 1 "Special Unarmed Strike" Options: Elemental Fist, Stunning Fist, Punishing Kick
Level 1 "Fighting Style" Options: Fuse Styles, Flurry of Blows, Flurry of Maneuvers
Bonus Feat Pool: Standard Monk, Style Feats, Improved Maneuvers
Level 1 Miscellaneous Options: No Alignment Restriction (precludes Ki Pool)
Etc.
Would be fun to build from, but you know someone would manage to min/max it to all hell and back.