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I'm going to be GMing an adventure with monsters that have blind-fight, 10' reach (natural weapons), a propensity to drop Fog Clouds, and they travel in groups of 2-3. Assume the PCs do not have blind-fight or reach. For reference, definitions are:
Blind fight
In melee, every time you miss because of concealment (see Combat), you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don't lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn't get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker's bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.
You do not need to make Acrobatics skill checks to move at full speed while blinded.
Fog cloud
A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can't use sight to locate the target).
Questions:
1. Is it correct that the monsters must be adjacent to a PC to threaten the PC, since they can't see PCs further than 5 ft away?
2. Is it correct that the monsters can only attack adjacent, and not 10 feet away even with reach, because they cannot see a PC 10 feet away? (Or is there a perception roll?)
3. If 1 and/or 2 is incorrect and the monster can attack more than 5 feet away, is it correct that the defending PC will be at -2 AC with no dex modifier to AC because the attacker is concealed?
4. Is it correct that if the monster is attacked from more than 5 feet away, the monster retains full AC because of blind-fight?
5. Is it correct that the monsters can move full speed in the fog cloud without an Acrobatics roll. The PCs can move at 1/2 speed.
Thanks!
Adam
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1. Yes
2. A perception roll, assuming the PCs are making more than no noise, would be my choice. Perception covers more than just sight. The monster has to identify the square its enemy is in, and then attack that square with a 50% miss chance (modified by Blind-Fight).
3. An invisible attacker gets +2 to attacks, but strange though it may seem, concealed is not the same as invisible. No -2 to AC as far as I can tell, and since everyone is more or less aware of each other (sounds of combat Perception DC is 0), I wouldn't take away Dexterity modifier to AC.
4. If attacked in melee, Blind-Fight functions. If it's more than 5 feet away from range, it doesn't.
5. I was always fuzzy on this rule. Is it true that someone in obscuring mist has to move at half speed?
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3. An invisible attacker gets +2 to attacks, but strange though it may seem, concealed is not the same as invisible. No -2 to AC as far as I can tell, and since everyone is more or less aware of each other (sounds of combat Perception DC is 0), I wouldn't take away Dexterity modifier to AC.
I see it this way:
- I know that the enemy is approximately -> there.- if the attacker is invisible I don't see his weapon but if he is only concealed by fog I will see his weapon a split second before it land his blow, so I can react.
It become a bit questionable when speaking of total darkness but invisibility is superior to total concealment.
1) yes
2) you can attack non-adjacent targets. It takes a means to pinpoint the location (perception roll) or a guess as to the square the target is in. Then there is a 50% miss chance. Blind-fight still applies since a reach weapon is still a melee attack (see below).
Benefit: In melee, every time you miss because of concealment (see Chapter 8), you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can’t strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).
When making a melee Flanking attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to you, use the rules for determining concealment from ranged attacks.
Cover and Concealment have special rules for ranged attacks which a reach weapon must follow (in order to see how much cover or concealment there is). But the reach weapon is still a melee attack and nothing in the concealment rules state that it is no longer a melee attack. Thus, blind-fight can be used.
3) No, they do not gain a +2 attack from being concealed nor do they ignore the target's dexterity. Note: if using the stealth playtest rules and the creature is stealthed then there is a +2 bonus as if invisible and the attacker ignores dexterity.
4) See 3. Note: if using the stealth playtest rules then the answer is yes. Again, Blind-fight works in melee. Reach is still melee.
5) Yes
- Gauss
Mergy: Fog reduces doubles move costs.
Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, and poor visibility can hamper movement (see Table 7–7 for details).
Table 7-7 states poor visibility is x2 movement modifier.
At that point people often use the rules for blindness to allow full move speed in fog. While not expressly stated a DC10 acrobatics check or fall prone should allow you to move in poor visibility just as if you were blind.
- Gauss
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So you guys are saying a Rogue with Shadow Strike in fog attacking from 10' or more away wouldn't get sneak attack on his target?
Even though the target can't see him, (let's say he can see through fog for some reason), but he can see his target, he still can't get sneak attack?
EDIT:
To further clarify, I think I was reading about a waves oracle/ ninja on the boards before that specifically used obscuring mist and his water sight to nail enemies with ranged attacks that dealt sneak attack damage.
So this isn't possible?
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So you guys are saying a Rogue with Shadow Strike in fog attacking from 10' or more away wouldn't get sneak attack on his target?
Even though the target can't see him, (let's say he can see through fog for some reason), but he can see his target, he still can't get sneak attack?
EDIT:
To further clarify, I think I was reading about a waves oracle/ ninja on the boards before that specifically used obscuring mist and his water sight to nail enemies with ranged attacks that dealt sneak attack damage.
So this isn't possible?
Concealment allows for Stealth checks, which would be required to make that work.
Necro bump: What happens if your creature has blind sight and a reach weapon and attacks from 10 feet away in a fog cloud? What happens if the creature with reach is also in position to flank in that cloud?