RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Ok, more confusion.
Our friend stone call again. Satruday when I cast it, I was running on the 'magic vs DR' general rule spelled out in the CRB. I had forgotten (which is more embarressing, since BNW reminded me before) This post that a zombie's DR *does* affect spells like Stone call.
Is this official for PFS? I noticed in the post the reply to 'FAQing' the post was 'no response needed'. I'm prone to disagree.
If it is, then I owe the GM an apology. :-(
If a spell does damage that is typed (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) then DR applies. Somewhere there is a quote from SKR (I think) about this.
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The rule on DR says that spells, spell-like abilities and energy damage (including non-magical fire) bypass damage reduction.
However, in the case of stone call, it is a conjuration spell, and the damage is not done by the spell, but by the stones you conjure. This is why glitterdust doesn't allow SR to work and works against constructs, as it is a conjuration effect.
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I just looked it up.
There is also a quote from SKR SKR on Damage reduction in typed spells
So yes as far as I can tell - the Zombies should have had DR 5 from Stone Call.
But there is a heated debate even after JJ or SKR answered it. So there are more people assuming otherwise. And I don't think it has anything to do with PFS / non PFS. This should be applied that way if you run Pathfinder unless Jason Bulmahn.
There are other examples where rules could be worded better. But to me - having now read up - it is the way I would have assumed it to work anyhow and with two designers giving examples it seems clear enough.
edit: Did it take me that long to look it up, read up, get the CRB out to be ninjaed by 24 minutes ...
Overall the magic vs DR rule doesn't seem to hold. I think a better way to look at DR and magic is by damage type. If the spell does weapon like damage then DR applies. If the spell does energy damage then energy resistance applies.
Thod: You were not slow. You took the step that the rest of us skipped and found SKRs quote.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Another thought,
An incorporeal creature has no physical
body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures,
magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons,
and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It
is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit
by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from
a corporeal source
If they're non-magical rocks, do they affect incorporeal creatures? I assume yes because they're from a spell.
The rocks are non-magical attacks. They might be summoned by rocks, but unless they are shards of magical energy (a la magic missile), they won't do jack. Same idea if you use Telekinesis to throw a jug at a ghost; it may have been thrown by magic but it is a mundane jug that won't do anything.
The magic of stone call is that it makes stones go really fast at the target; not that it wraps them in magical force.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The rocks are non-magical attacks. They might be summoned by rocks, but unless they are shards of magical energy (a la magic missile), they won't do jack. Same idea if you use Telekinesis to throw a jug at a ghost; it may have been thrown by magic but it is a mundane jug that won't do anything.
The magic of stone call is that it makes stones go really fast at the target; not that it wraps them in magical force.
That was my first thought, but they're created by magic and disappear after the duration...
It's like, does acid splash work? What about ice storm etc. etc.
I would also rule that they didn't bypass DR/magic. Yes, they were created by magic and are a temporary item, but the spell doesn't call them out as doing so, nor say they have a +1 enhancement (or higher). If you summoned a masterwork sword out of nowhere, would you count it as a magical weapon? I wouldn't, it says it is a masterwork sword nothing more. It would however radiate a faint magic aura as it is a conjured object.
Just because it was summoned/created by magic doesn't mean it has magical properties (which is what DR/magic is checking for).
Ooh, ooh, ooh! Time for my favourite bit, now.
Ice Storm creates "giant magical hailstones" as an evocation spell. These are not conjured hailstones, they are magic that happens to exist in the form of hailstones that dish out bludgeoning and cold damage. Do they overcome DR/Magic?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ooh, ooh, ooh! Time for my favourite bit, now.
Ice Storm creates "giant magical hailstones" as an evocation spell. These are not conjured hailstones, they are magic that happens to exist in the form of hailstones that dish out bludgeoning and cold damage. Do they overcome DR/Magic?
They should, but would be 'soaked' by bludgeoning, per James' example above.
It's like, does acid splash work?
Acid splash = acid damage, so it is stopped by acid resistance, not DR.
I disagree Skylancer,
James' commens specifically call out S/B/P, not magic/silver/adamantine/epic.
Actually, to be specific he calls out spells that deal S/B/P types of damage are meant to be resisted by the listed DR AND that if a DR (for example DR/magic) weren't supposed to come into play they wouldn't type the damage in the description.
Let us note that Stone call says nothing about magical bludgeoning damage, it states strictly bludgeoning damage. From what SKR said in the post, DR/B would be bypassed (listed in the spell description), DR/magic wouldn't (not listed in the spell description). And if neither of them were supposed help resist the damage, they wouldn't have typed it at all.