Casting summon monster as a sorcerer or wizard or cleric or even summon creature as a druid has always been a full-round action. One of my players surprised me by casting it as a standard action as a wordcaster (words of power sorcerer). Does this seem like an exploit to anyone besides me. As far as I can tell he is right, words of power are all standard actions. Just seems strange to me....
If a Word of Power allows the character to summon a creature (as per the Summon Monster/Nature's Ally spells) as a standard action, then I see no problem with it, since RAW means that the Word of Power statement overrides the Summon Monster/Nature's Ally statements.
Even so, it's nice to give those Summoning-based classes some extra competition. Though, I concur in that granting pretty much every spellcaster the ability to summon monsters makes them all the more overpowered.
I guess the topic is a tad misleading, I don't have an issue with wordcasters having access to summon spells. It strikes me as strange that they can cast it as a standard action when every other spellcaster must spend a full round action. Oh well, minor issue, no big deal.
While wordcasting is on a whole a bit weaker then normal casting this is kind of its thing. Action economy that is. Later you will be seeing this player combine a couple of buffs into one spell just a heads up.
So in the end he is more or less giving up the versatility of normal casting (there are not words for the huge range of spells there are normally.) to be a bit quicker here and there. Honestly seems pretty fair to me.
It's an exploit, but the limitations on summoning words make them less versatile than regular summon monster or summon nature's ally spells. The only way to summon multiple creatures at once with wordspells is to either combine servitor words (i.e., selected servitor I servitor I to summon two creatures) or apply the boost meta word to the selected target word. In both cases, this increases the level of the wordspell above the equivalent regular spell: two spell levels higher for two creatures or three spell levels higher for either 1d4+1 or three creatures; normal summoning spells are one spell level higher for 1d3 creatures or two levels higher for 1d4+1 creatures. It is possible to increase the level of the wordspell by five to summon 2d4+2 creatures (i.e., boost selected servitor I servitor I is a 6th-level wordspell) if you want to flood the battlefield with low-level fodder, but that's usually not very useful by the time you can do it.
Plus Summoners can use their SLA to summon as a standard action, ok it's not as a spell and they can only have one out at a time (unless they're a Master Summoner) but still.
It's an exploit, but the limitations on summoning words make them less versatile than regular summon monster or summon nature's ally spells.
Word Casters are weaker than standard casters so they need something to compete with regular casters.
It's an exploit, but the limitations on summoning words make them less versatile than regular summon monster or summon nature's ally spells.Word Casters are weaker than standard casters so they need something to compete with regular casters.
The Words of Power alternate magic system trades a measure of power/versatility from standard spells for a much greater degree of flexibility with wordspells.
This is not necessarily a bad thing, as many of the spells that contribute to the "CoDzilla"/"GOD wizard" are not possible/higher level as wordspells... which extends the "sweet spot" in which non-spellcasters are not drastically overshadowed by primary spellcasters.
Dragonchess Player: You can't use two Effect Words of the same type in a single Wordspell, so you can't have Selected Summon Servitor 1 Summon Servitor 1. Boosting is the only way to get multiple creatures and this ALWAYS increases the Wordspell minimum level by 3.
The Summoner SLA or a Cleric with Sacred Summons is always better than a Wordcaster trying to use SS.
Edit: I suppose an Abyssal Sorceror with Superior Summons could manage, as well, but that's assuming a 15th level character before you can get multiple summons on an at-level spell.
interesting info thanks for the feedback. It makes sense now!
Dragonchess Player: You can't use two Effect Words of the same type in a single Wordspell, so you can't have Selected Summon Servitor 1 Summon Servitor 1. Boosting is the only way to get multiple creatures and this ALWAYS increases the Wordspell minimum level by 3.
The Summoner SLA or a Cleric with Sacred Summons is always better than a Wordcaster trying to use SS.
Edit: I suppose an Abyssal Sorceror with Superior Summons could manage, as well, but that's assuming a 15th level character before you can get multiple summons on an at-level spell.
This is in reference to the bolded text.
Reference please? After a careful reading of the servitor word I see no reason why boosting would increase the level by three.
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I guess the topic is a tad misleading, I don't have an issue with wordcasters having access to summon spells. It strikes me as strange that they can cast it as a standard action when every other spellcaster must spend a full round action. Oh well, minor issue, no big deal.
[nitpick]Summon spells are normally 1 round actions, not full round action. The difference is full round means you start and end casting during the character's turn. It takes his standard and move actions to complete a full round action. 1 round means the character does nothing else (except free/swift actions) during his turn, and finishes casting just before his next turn, so he's casting during everyone else's turn as well as his own. Summons, Sleep, Enlarge/Reduce Person, many spells that people forget are 1 round castings. [/nitpick]
i think people use the terms interchangeably because there aren't any Full-Round Action spells that aren't also 1 Round spells AFAIK.
the magic chapter just says standard action spells, 1 round spells, and longer casting times.
if you say full-round spell, it's pretty clear what you are talking about,
even if there are more implications (re: concentration and when the spell happens) then other full-round actions like full attack.
(that does remind me of the Core Rule playtest, when I suggested that Casters be forced to eat an action economy on-par with mundane types who rely on Full Attack, and have their top 2 spell levels require Full Round Actions for Standard Casting spells, Cantrips and possibly 1st level spells excepted. 1/2 Casters like Paladins would probably have been exempted, 3/4 Casters usually have early entry spells and they would probably still justify at least their top spell level having longer casting. all those cases would NOT be 1 round spells, just use full-round actions.)
yeah, i don't think wordcasters are going to be overpowered summoners in general, albeit if they pick a class/archetype with good summoning bonuses that will help them stay on-par. they really only shine with summonings where you don't need alot of creatures, but need the creatures to be affected by some buff to be useful, e.g. you need them to be ethereal. so all in all, it's probably not useless for a wordcaster to learn some Summoning words, but it isn't an issue of overpoweredness.
Dragonchess Player: You can't use two Effect Words of the same type in a single Wordspell, so you can't have Selected Summon Servitor 1 Summon Servitor 1. Boosting is the only way to get multiple creatures and this ALWAYS increases the Wordspell minimum level by 3.
Since Summon words are not explicitly mentioned in the paragraph on pg. 163*, it's not strictly RAW. However, it's not as if combining multiple Summon effect words is more powerful than standard spellcasting, as I pointed out. I guess to maintain balance, you could allow multiple Summon effect words or a Summon word combined with other effect words (such as Armor words, Body words, and Change words), but not both.
*-"Effect words are split into groups of similar words. A wordspell typically cannot have more than one effect word from the same group, but there are exceptions. A wordspell can have more than one effect word from the Detection group, but cannot have have a wordspell with an effect word from the Detection group and an effect word from any other group."
This is in reference to the bolded text.
Reference please? After a careful reading of the servitor word I see no reason why boosting would increase the level by three.
The very last sentence of the description of each servitor effect word states: "If the target word is boosted, a wordspell with this effect word summons 1d4+1 of the chosen creatures." They also all have the target restriction of selected. The description of the selected target word states: "This boosted target word increases the level of all the effect words in the wordspell by 3 levels."
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i think people use the terms interchangeably because there aren't any Full-Round Action spells that aren't also 1 Round spells AFAIK.
the magic chapter just says standard action spells, 1 round spells, and longer casting times.
if you say full-round spell, it's pretty clear what you are talking about,
even if there are more implications (re: concentration and when the spell happens) then other full-round actions like full attack.
A quick filter of the spell database shows 9 spells that are full-round casting times. None in the CRB, true, but they do exist.
The very last sentence of the description of each servitor effect word states: "If the target word is boosted, a wordspell with this effect word summons 1d4+1 of the chosen creatures." They also all have the target restriction of selected. The description of the selected target word states: "This boosted target word increases the level of all the effect words in the wordspell by 3 levels."
Wow, never caught that before. I am a cheating cheater who cheats. I guess that's still fair since you are summoning as a standard action. Thanks for the clarification!