Resolving Mage's Disjunction

[jamesburkhouse]

Hey all, I have a few questions regarding Mage's Disjunction, I would like to see what y'all think about the spell.

1) if you cast Mage's Disjunction on a target who has buffing spells up, would you say that the spells go down simultaneously with items, or would spells go down "first"? Would spells that affect a creature's saves work on items in that creature's possession?

2) If the target has save-buffing spells, would they increase the save of attended items?

3) Can a persistent or focused disjunction target a creature and therefore affect all equipment, or do they need to target a specific item?

[Defraeter]

1) simultaneously
Would spells that affect a creature's saves work on items in that creature's possession? A save buff doesn't "work on items".
You use the magic item's saving throw OR those of its wielder.

(object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects. A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + 1/2 the item's caster level.

NOTE PRD: A magic item's saving throw bonus equals 2 + 1/2 its caster level (rounded down). The only exceptions to this are intelligent magic items, which make Will saves based on their own Wisdom scores.

2) No, see 1)

3) Not possible to use this 2 feats, because Mage's disjunction doesn't affects or target creature.
And the 2 feats are able to use only on spells which "affects" creature.

Persistent spell: "Whenever a creature targeted by a persistent spell or within its area..."

Focused spell: "When casting a spell that affects or targets more than one creature..."

[jamesburkhouse]

Are intelligent items still allowed to use their owner's saving throw? Or are they forced to use their own, even if attended?

[Defraeter]

Intelligent items are magic items, so may use owner's ST if better.
They have better ST than standard magic items: 2 + 1/2 its caster level (rounded down) +bonus Wisdom
And often, intelligent items have a big CL...

[jamesburkhouse]

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

[LoBandolerPi]

Defraeter wrote:

A save buff doesn't "work on items".

You use the magic item's saving throw OR those of its wielder.

Does this mean that an item which has already passed it's save, and which boosts the Wisdom of the wielder (or grants any other bonus to saving throws) does not has to be taken into account in order to determine "the saving throw of the wielder"? I don't think so.

Is this example correct?

A character with Will save of 12, without bonuses. He is wielding 3 different objects, and each one grants the PJ +1 to will saves (luckystone, headband and guardian weapon for instance, and let's assume all of them use the weilder saving throw)

The DC of the disjunction is 29.
The character rolls for the 3 objects 20, 14 and 4.
Since all is simultaneous, we start from the lower result.

4+12+1+1+1 = 19 < 29. The guardian weapon fails the save, so its bonus is not taken into account.

14+12+1+1 = 28 < 29. The headband fails the save because of simultaneity.

20+12+1 > 29. The luckystone saves, so will be taken into account for the rest of objects.