My bard is heavily focused on support. I generally avoid fighting and stick to magic and performances. I'm a Sound Striker, so eventually, I won't need to worry about fighting at all--if I absolutely need to, I can just deal damage with Weird Words. The game is Carrion Crown, so I'm also a Dirge Bard, meaning I can use Mind-Affecting spells on undead and I get bonus Necromancy spells from any arcane list.
Right now, I'm torn between two routes I could take with my feats. I already have Lingering Performance and Flagbearer, and I am unquestionably taking Discordant Voice when I qualify. What should I do for the rest?:
1) Eldritch Heritage: Arcane (for a familiar), Improved Familiar (for a Psuedodragon), and Improved Eldritch Heritage (for extra wiz/sorc spells added to my lsit.
2) Improved Initiative, Spellsong, and I don't know, whatever other feat I want--probably metamagic like Heighten or something.
I thought the familiar and extra spells would be a no-brainer, but looking over the spells I could choose with Improved Eldritch Heritage, I was totally underwhelmed. There are too many to choose from that are worth having, but none that stand out as a clear "this is the best spell I could choose and is totally worth a feat." I mean, I already get the good Necromancy spells (Enervation and Magic Jar please). I don't know, I'd feel lame if I went through all this trouble and just ended up with something bland (though of course useful) like Black Tentacles, Wall of Stone, or Telekinesis.
Plus, it's just a lot of investment in one thing. Two feats for a familiar--it's awesome, but I don't think I can fit both Improved Initiative and Spellsong into my build before the teens if I do that, and obviously going first is huge and when your GM runs Charms the way this guy does, you want to be able to hide that you're casting it.
What would you do?
I would throw ranks into UMD. With your charisma, you'll be pretty good at it.
By the time you would have those extra spells, you'll be able to use scrolls of those spells. You'll be able to use scrolls of EVERYTHING. Costs a bit more gold, but saves you a feat.
And it opens up more options for you. Inspire Courage not enough? Cast Bless too for 25 gp. Want more Sound abilities? Get a wand of sound burst.
You still might want to take Eldritch Heritage though. See what the other options are, you might find something you like. If not, Imp. Init is always good.
Yeah, I have UMD maxed, and one of the most appealing parts of the familiar is having a mobile wand platform.
So, what do you think--I should get the familiar, but not bother with the Improved Eldrich Heritage?
And yes, I have the Skill Focus already, but I could swap it if I end up not going for Eldritch Heritage.
I like Serpentine Bloodline.
1) You get get a bite attack that is both magic and poison also a extra attack in round.
2) Requires Skill focus Dip to get in which is your role as bard.
3) Gives you
Serpentfriend (Ex): At 3rd level, you can use speak with animals at will with reptilian animals (including various forms of dinosaurs, lizards, and other cold-blooded creatures), and you gain a viper familiar using your sorcerer level –2 as your effective wizard level.
The Viper give +3 to Bluf agian you role. This can be upgraded to
a Psuedodragon if you choose to.
This is 3 abilty for 1 feat
1 Speak with Reptial, +3 to Bluff, and Familiar.
4) For a feat you get a amulet of Natural armor +4 32k GP value for just a feat. Then add +4 vs pioson and +4 escape Artist throwen in for free. Poison save suck and you have weak Fort Save. +4 to get out of grappel which suck even more than being poisoned.
Snakeskin (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +1 bonus to natural armor, a +2 racial bonus on saves against poison, and a +2 bonus on Escape Artist checks. At 13th level and 17th level, these bonuses increase by +1.
5) Den of Vipers (Sp): At 15th level, you may summon a host of writhing serpents. This power acts as creeping doom, but the swarms’ poison inflicts Con damage and any creature other than you sharing a space with a swarm is entangled. You may use this ability once per day.
At high level just take CON damage that make quick work of bad guys.
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have you looked at the human blood line for a support bard?
Heroic Echo (Su): At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses. If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. You can use this ability once per day, plus one time per three levels after 3rd.then
MOMENT OF GREATNESS
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 1, cleric 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (rabbit fur)
Range 50 ft.
Target The caster and allies within a 50-ft. burst centered on the caster
Duration 1 minute/level or until discharged
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
Each creature affected by this spell is given the potential for greater success and glory. If the affected creature is benefiting from a morale bonus of any type, it can double that morale bonus on one roll or check, before making the roll. Once an affected creature uses this spell's effect, the spell is discharged for that subject.
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...Creepy. You have very nearly the exact same bard build that I just started in PFS. Sound Striker Dirge Bard, Eldritch Heritage for a familiar, Improved Familiar, even Spellsong...
Anyway, here's where we differ. Instead of a pseudodragon, I'm taking a Severed Head as my familiar. It seems like good flavor. I dropped Lingering Performance, Flagbearer and Improved Initiative (at least for the first few levels), and I'm opting for Evolved familiar instead.
And as far as things you should look at... Consider concentration spells in general, and illusions in particular. Being able to concentrate and still do other things is one of the more combat-friendly applications of Spellsong, especially for support. And as far as Improved Eldritch Heritage, I'm going to have to agree that one extra spell from a different spell list is kind of a weak option to spend a feat on. You've got so much else you want to do.
What are you taking for your first two Necromancy spells?
Holy crap--if I could grab that instead of a familiar, I'd be all about it. Unfortunately, I'd have to wait until level 11 and the Improved Eldritch Heritage feat to get that ability--I don't think I want to wait that long for two feats to pay off. That level 1 power would do essentially nothing for me.have you looked at the human blood line for a support bard?
Heroic Echo (Su): At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses. If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. You can use this ability once per day, plus one time per three levels after 3rd.
...Creepy. You have very nearly the exact same bard build that I just started in PFS. Sound Striker Dirge Bard, Eldritch Heritage for a familiar, Improved Familiar, even Spellsong...
Well, I want that stuff--I don't have it yet. I'm actually kind of debating between Improved Initiative and Spellsong or the Familiar.
and I'm opting for Evolved familiar instead.
Interesting--what evolution is worth taking?
What are you taking for your first two Necromancy spells?
I took Chill Touch for the first one. There really were no great options, but this lets me panic undead, which I've used to great effect (it's Carrion Crown, so there have been tons of undead--I even used the Two World Magic trait to get Disrupt Undead as a cantrip, since it was better than my shortbow).
I'm not 6th level yet, but for the second, I'm leaning Command Undead. I wish there was a better one, but low level necromancy seems pretty crappy. If I didn't have a familiar, I'd go for Spectral Hand. Even with a familiar, it seems like the next best choice.
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you gotta remember, you know how you have to have a skill focus for your eldirtch heritages?
This one requires perform(oratory) Which if you look at versatile performance, that gets your diplomacy AND sense motive... so +3 or +6 to a skill to boost three skills total... where as your one for familiar gets you what? Arcana? meh.
While the level 1 is situational, it'll certainly give you heck of a bonus when it comes into play, I do agree that it's situational, but I kind of think the first feat you blew to get the first eldritch heritage is a bigger dud for you than this one!
This one requires perform(oratory) Which if you look at versatile performance, that gets your diplomacy AND sense motive... so +3 or +6 to a skill to boost three skills total... where as your one for familiar gets you what? Arcana? meh.
Unfortunately, Dirge Bards lose Versatile Performer (but I need it to affect undead with mind-affecting spells--and there are a lot of undead). And I don't use Oratory at all. Plus, I got my skill focus (in Knowledge Religion, actually) essentially for free due to the GM's quirky character creation rules.
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and I'm opting for Evolved familiar instead.Interesting--what evolution is worth taking?
"Worth it" is such a... strong phrase. You can do some really fun things with it though- Skilled: Disguise works hilariously well, especially with the ability to cast Disguise Self on the head. Also, Severed Heads don't actually have a bite attack- a travesty I fully intend to rectify.
What are you taking for your first two Necromancy spells?I took Chill Touch for the first one. There really were no great options, but this lets me panic undead, which I've used to great effect (it's Carrion Crown, so there have been tons of undead--I even used the Two World Magic trait to get Disrupt Undead as a cantrip, since it was better than my shortbow).
I'm not 6th level yet, but for the second, I'm leaning Command Undead. I wish there was a better one, but low level necromancy seems pretty crappy....
That was pretty much what I thought, too. Too bad, I was hoping you had a better idea.
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As an update, we leveled during the session--wasn't expecting that--so, on the spot, I went with Eldritch Heritage and took the familiar. It was already useful, too. My Raven helped me put out fires and save villagers! So, yeah, it looks like I'll be climbing that feat chain.
I still have an open feat at 5th and 9th to play with. I was going to take two of Harmonic Spell, Improved Initiative, or Spellsong, but now I'm tempted by Evolving my familiar.
In prep for my Improved Familiar, I'm pretty tempted to get the +8 racial skill bonus evolution and sinking it into UMD. That or Reach so my Thrush does not provoke when delivering my touch spells. Now there are four (maybe even 5, as I could evolve my familiar twice) feats I might want and only two slots to fill. Tough choices!
The Eldritch Heritage feat chain is handy for all those who have the spare feats.
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Personally, I think I'd drop Harmonic Spell, if only because its usefulness diminishes pretty quickly as you level and gain bardic performance rounds, and you've already got Lingering Performance to help stretch your rounds per day. And you probably won't be wanting to switch performances all that often, either, if only because Lingering Performance has no effect when you start a new performance. I've loved Spellsong, so I would have to recommend that- its just incredibly useful to hide your illusions and enchantments.
What race are you? I went Half-elf and took the racial favored class bonus (+1 round of bardic performance per level), so having enough rounds per day is less of a concern. If you don't have a lot of rounds per day or your party runs into more encounters than usual per day, having Harmonic Spell to stretch out your rounds would probably be a better idea than taking Spellsong and spending considerably more than you normally would.
I'm Human for more spells. I have 20 Charisma, though, so I'm not hurting for Performance rounds--Harmonic Spell was more interesting to me as a way to switch performances as a swift action, which I guess loses effectiveness the longer I wait (as I can eventually do so anyway).
I love the idea of Spellsong, but I can't shake Improved Initiative being awesome.
Also, any idea what Necromancy spell you're going to take at 10th? I like planning ahead.
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Improved Initiative is definitely awesome, but it's a little... flavorless, would be the word I would use. I've taken it only on one of my characters, and even though it fits with his theme of wanting to never be surprised, it still felt kind of dull. Up to you, but personally it's rarely ever on my radar anymore.
As for the level 10 spell... Enervation is good, obviously. Although it's kind of a GM spell more than a player spell, I feel like. And with all the feats I'm putting toward my floating head familiar, I feel like Familiar Melding would be appropriate, and a whole lot of fun. I thought about Bestow Curse, but I get the feeling I wouldn't get to do the really fun things that it should allow in PFS.
Can you cast wand spells through a Familiar?
There are a lot of bloodlines that are wonderful against undead. I believe there is one that allows you to stun/daze/paralyze and damage an undead using the level 1 power.
Can you cast wand spells through a Familiar?
While I believe a Corvid should be capable of doing that (as the requirement is pointing the wand at something, which they can do, and speaking a command word, which raven, thrush, and parrot familiars can do), but the developers, I believe, have said only Improved Familiars could UMD wands.
This thread makes me happy. So much focus on making everyone else awesome :-D
Can you cast wand spells through a Familiar?While I believe a Corvid should be capable of doing that (as the requirement is pointing the wand at something, which they can do, and speaking a command word, which raven, thrush, and parrot familiars can do), but the developers, I believe, have said only Improved Familiars could UMD wands.
i don't think he's asking that, i think he's asking about using a familiar to deliver touch effects.
i'm not really sure about the RAW basis for saying only Improved Familiars can utilize UMD.i would think a raven could for example.
I hate to say it but I actually had to stop and think on what a Corvid was...
So are you planning on the Familiar using to wand or using the familiar to deliver the spell?
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i don't think he's asking that, i think he's asking about using a familiar to deliver touch effects.
I'm pretty sure you could--never really thought about it. If the GM had ruled my Raven was unable to fight the fire effectively, my back up plan was to use my wand of CLW and have him fly the charge to the villagers that were hurt. I actually never even considered that might not be allowed.
i'm not really sure about the RAW basis for saying only Improved Familiars can utilize UMD.
i would think a raven could for example.
I would also think a Raven could--and would love that to be the case. I'm going to ask my GM when it becomes relevant, but I really think I remember a developer claim that none of the basic familiars could UMD without giving much of a reason.
This thread makes me happy. So much focus on making everyone else awesome :-D
I GM 95% of the time I roleplay, but I've discovered that when I PC, I'm happiest when I'm solidly in a Support role. I love buffing, healing, utility, and sometimes controlling, and really have no interest in just dealing or taking damage well. Out of combat, I like leadership roles (which support naturally fills) and solving problems in clever/inventive ways. Personally, I think it's harder to support than to fill any other party role, and I like both the challenge of it and the validation I get from the other players for doing it.
I hate to say it but I actually had to stop and think on what a Corvid was...
Sorry, yeah, it's the family of birds ravens, crows, magpies, etc. are in. The more scientists study them, the more shockingly intelligent we find out that they are.
So are you planning on the Familiar using to wand or using the familiar to deliver the spell?
Both, if possible. Early on, the familiar's Charisma penalty will be an issue for activating wands on their own. Eventually, though, they should be able to do so with minimum trouble.
Heck the only thing missing from this build that is missing when compared to my friends build is this is missing the Geisha Archetype.
Though they haven't gotten Eldritch Heritage yet. They are planning to get a Parrot. Geisha Pirate priceless.
P.S.: Corvids are my favorite type of bird. They are great Prankers.