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I use 25 point buy, 75% of the maximum variable hit points, standard starting funds, and all sources published by Paizo for the Pathfinder Roleplaying game.
Totally missed this aspect. So your BETTER then what is considered standard by the rules (which is 15 FYI...even if PFS is run at 20...and assumed max HP at level 1 and AVERAGE dice rolls) and doing around 70 DPR?!? YIKES.
With all of that aside my monsters unless they are stupid don't let people get full attacks on them. They will trip, and disarm using reach to keep you away or fly. They might grapple you after disarming you to make sure you can't get you weapon back if possible. Yeah you might have a backup, but it won't be as good as the primary weapon, and if it is not a +5 it may not bypass DR.You mean they "Try" to. It is not easy to disarm/trip a Full BAB class much less a fighter with gloves of dueling.
Yeah I did mean "try", but my point was the monster is not just going to sit there and trade blows if it is not to his advantage, if it can help it. :)
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With all of that aside my monsters unless they are stupid don't let people get full attacks on them. They will trip, and disarm using reach to keep you away or fly. They might grapple you after disarming you to make sure you can't get you weapon back if possible. Yeah you might have a backup, but it won't be as good as the primary weapon, and if it is not a +5 it may not bypass DR.You mean they "Try" to. It is not easy to disarm/trip a Full BAB class much less a fighter with gloves of dueling.
Shurg...A nightcrawler is +41 to grapple. That is pretty easy to beat 43 with. Acient blue is +40.
Because of the "He's a king!" flavor text, I decided to try this:
Orc Aristocrat 18
36 STR (18, +4 Racial, +4 Inherent [Improved Eldritch Heritage], +4 Levels, +6 Belt)
1: Skill Focus (Knowledge [Planes])
3: Weapon Focus (Falchion)
5: Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)
7: Leadership
9: [anything]
11: Improved Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal)
13: Improved Critical (Falchion)
15: Critical Focus
17: Bleeding Critical
+5 Adamantine Falchion (+32/+27/+22 (2d4+24/15-20/×2 plus 2d6 bleed)
Does 82.65 damage plus 5.25 bleed damage per round using no equipment other than belt and weapon. Can wear full plate. No setting-specific materials.
Now, on the one hand, this is kind of a silly example; it's not a full build, and it probably wouldn't be able to match your skill ranks. But on the other hand, I have no system mastery at all, and yet your fighter is being outdamaged by an Aristocrat. That's an NPC class with 3/4 BAB and no class features to speak of; it shouldn't even be able to compete with a fighter.
And if you let me treat Aristocrat levels as Fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for the Greater Weapon Focus and [Greater] Weapon Specialization feats, the damage increases to 98.34 damage plus 5.46 bleed damage on a full-attack - which means the Aristocrat, without the benefit of Haste, would be matching the damage you output with Haste.
Also, my aristocrat can actually survive the first ten levels of play.
There's a certain point where someone stops being a "fighter". And while you may have freely given your character the name "king", this guy here has earned his royal title by being in the aristocracy for eighteen levels.
This Elf contributes more to the utility department than Revin Bitter.
Revin might have a higher attack bonus and an extra swing per round. but lets see how he holds up in comparison to this tiny little elf girl who provides more utility. i know she has a 15% arcane failure. she just bites it just fine.
I do not contest your DPR numbers, Wraith. RK's damage output is a bit lower than I'd like.
I don't see how he is much more susceptible to combat maneuvers from "big" creatures than any other "little" hero. They kind of have the numbers stacked in their favor.
Short of having freedom of movement or investing a full 18 levels of favored class bonus into CMD, I don't really see how anyone can compete with any monster two or more sizes larger than you.
Your post made me laugh, Yang (because it's true). Just remember that this thread is about being capable in combat* AND useful outside of combat.
I don't see how he is much more susceptible to combat maneuvers from "big" creatures than any other "little" hero. They kind of have the numbers stacked in their favor.
He's more susceptible than most characters because he needs to stand next to a monster for four rounds.
I don't see how he is much more susceptible to combat maneuvers from "big" creatures than any other "little" hero. They kind of have the numbers stacked in their favor.
Welp, without even trying (as in no effort put into the deed) the fighter im building right now will probably be pulling about a 51. This is without human favored class bonuses.
So yes big creatures have numbers stacked in their avor but full BAB classes usually have a lot more going for them than just BAB+STR+DEX.
Let's not get started on what a character like AM BARBARIAN would do to the poor dragon who tried to grapple him.
He's more susceptible than most characters because he needs to stand next to a monster for four rounds.
Good point. If a monster is busy chewing on him in a grapple, at least it's not going after other members of the party.
Mission accomplished. ;P
...the fighter im building right now will probably be pulling about a 51. This is without human favored class bonuses.
Mind showing the breakdown for that? I know it's possible, but I thought it would take a little bit more work than you seem to be alluding to.
Also, I'm going to assume you meant "Well" rather than "Welp."
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I do not contest your DPR numbers, Wraith. RK's damage output is a bit lower than I'd like.
I don't see how he is much more susceptible to combat maneuvers from "big" creatures than any other "little" hero. They kind of have the numbers stacked in their favor.
Short of having freedom of movement or investing a full 18 levels of favored class bonus into CMD, I don't really see how anyone can compete with any monster two or more sizes larger than you.
Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?
Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?
Not everyone can get one you know, though this character doesn't have much excuse.
Do you consider said ring to be a must have item for all characters at high level play?
This Elf contributes more to the utility department than Revin Bitter.
Revin might have a higher attack bonus and an extra swing per round. but lets see how he holds up in comparison to this tiny little elf girl who provides more utility. i know she has a 15% arcane failure. she just bites it just fine.
You're on Myth Weavers? I've been looking for a good Pathfinder game on there as of late. We should play together some time.
I think I can hit a CMD in the low 40's by level 18. I might be able to hit 50 which means the monster has to roll at least a 10.
I think I can hit a CMD in the low 40's by level 18. I might be able to hit 50 which means the monster has to roll at least a 10.
18 BAB
10 base10 strength modifier
04 dexterity modifier
42 without even trying.
47 with a ring of protection +5 gets close to the aforementioned 51. I suppose if you built towards a high CMD you could have a higher Dexterity, an ioun stone, and Dodge, which would get it to or above 51 before you even consider favored class bonuses.
+18 BAB +8 Maneuver MAstery +9 Str +4 Dex +5 Deflection.
That's base. It's lower as I forgot weapon training is only against sunder/disarm.
Add 6 against Sunder/Disarm
Add 4 Against dirty trick.
May get higher or lower depending as I've not even gotten to applying other things. Things like Race, traits, and feats can drive it even higher.
+18 BAB +8 Maneuver MAstery +9 Str +4 Dex +5 Deflection.
That's base. It's lower as I forgot weapon training is only against sunder/disarm.
Add 6 against Sunder/Disarm
Add 4 Against dirty trick.
May get higher or lower depending as I've not even gotten to applying other things. Things like Race, traits, and feats can drive it even higher.
That's a Lore Warden, right?
Thanks for sharing.
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Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?Not everyone can get one you know, though this character doesn't have much excuse.
Do you consider said ring to be a must have item for all characters at high level play?
Nope, clerics and oracles can do without the ring...A well made full BAB type can also manage without...a inquistor with mystical past life and taking the spell can do without. A bard with the defensive combat training MIGHT be able to sqeek by. Everyone else...yes, you need it.
Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?Not everyone can get one you know, though this character doesn't have much excuse.
Do you consider said ring to be a must have item for all characters at high level play?
You're on Myth Weavers? I've been looking for a good Pathfinder game on there as of late. We should play together some time.This Elf contributes more to the utility department than Revin Bitter.
Revin might have a higher attack bonus and an extra swing per round. but lets see how he holds up in comparison to this tiny little elf girl who provides more utility. i know she has a 15% arcane failure. she just bites it just fine.
i guess. i created that elf as an excersize to prove a point. but i guess i could play her.
The point was?i guess. i created that elf as an excersize to prove a point. but i guess i could play her.Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?Not everyone can get one you know, though this character doesn't have much excuse.
Do you consider said ring to be a must have item for all characters at high level play?
You're on Myth Weavers? I've been looking for a good Pathfinder game on there as of late. We should play together some time.This Elf contributes more to the utility department than Revin Bitter.
Revin might have a higher attack bonus and an extra swing per round. but lets see how he holds up in comparison to this tiny little elf girl who provides more utility. i know she has a 15% arcane failure. she just bites it just fine.
that i could build a suboptimal character with more versatility who could contribute not much less DPR in optimal conditions if given all the boons he was. and it is a 1/2 BAB combatant
She obviously would be better in the utility deparment, but her DPR is way inferior.that i could build a suboptimal character with more versatility who could contribute not much less DPR in optimal conditions if given all the boons he was. and it is a 1/2 BAB combatantThe point was?i guess. i created that elf as an excersize to prove a point. but i guess i could play her.Umm get a ring of freedom of movement then?Not everyone can get one you know, though this character doesn't have much excuse.
Do you consider said ring to be a must have item for all characters at high level play?
You're on Myth Weavers? I've been looking for a good Pathfinder game on there as of late. We should play together some time.This Elf contributes more to the utility department than Revin Bitter.
Revin might have a higher attack bonus and an extra swing per round. but lets see how he holds up in comparison to this tiny little elf girl who provides more utility. i know she has a 15% arcane failure. she just bites it just fine.
not as inferior when sneak attacking. still drastically inferior, but not as bad as it would be.
Forget the Arcane Trickster. Eighteenth-level Eldritch Knight wins in both DPR and versatility (decent skills from high Int mod plus eighth-level spellcasting).
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Forget the Arcane Trickster. Eighteenth-level Eldritch Knight wins in both DPR and versatility (decent skills from high Int mod plus eighth-level spellcasting).
I know...I have one that isn't even really tweaked for a casual group that out does RD's build by around 50 damage a round on a full attack...not that I ever really do full attacks in combat. Usually to busy casting spells...or shield slamming critters into pits.
Nicos, where is the +18 to CMD vs. grapple coming from?
Oh, I thought that was the +9 vs. disarm and sunder. Must have been misremembering. It's full progression, not half, isn't it?
So where are those +9s coming from? Weapon Training and Gloves of Dueling?
The UMD is ok, depending on what you want to use it for. It should be good for wands, and most low level scrolls.
The perception is not really good for that level.
The AC needs to go up.
I can't tell what your DPR is because the character is not complete.
How are you getting six attacks with a crossbow?
Can you do that? Split the bonuses?
I was under the impression that you picked two maneuvers, then the favored class bonus ALWAYS applied to only those two.
The UMD is ok, depending on what you want to use it for. It should be good for wands, and most low level scrolls.
The perception is not really good for that level.
The AC needs to go up.
I can't tell what your DPR is because the character is not complete.How are you getting six attacks with a crossbow?
+4 attacks for FULL BAB, +1 speed enhacement , +1 rapid shot+ rapid reload.
EDIT: a Balor miss me 45% of times with his highest attack, i do not see a problem with the AC.
EDIT 2: I think i have still money to spend so i could buy anditem that give +5 to UMD and another on for +5 to perception.
Balors use more than just melee. A monster such as a dragon that is better in melee will hit you more often.
Before we even get to Balors I would have the CR 18 monster dispel your magic armor, or if it was 2 CR 16's one dispels and the other attacks.
I did not see the speed on the sheet. I must have overlooked it. Does the tactician allow you to add dex to damage for the crossbow?
There is no core item for +5 to UMD. There is one for perception(eyes of the eagle). :)
I probably would have gotten a headband just to boost the wisdom(will save) a little bit, but I don't know how much money you have left.
Overall it does do more than just fight, which was the goal. Not at all.
I agree Nicos, nothing says you have to take the same two maneuvers every time.
i only have you at +36 before the penalties for deadly aim and rapid shot
18 BAB
6 dex
5 WT
2 WF, and GWF
5 weapon enhancement
18+(6+5)+(2+5)=18+11+7=29+7=36
with deadly aim in play that drops down to a +31
With rapidshot it drops down to a +29
i only have you at +36 before the penalties for deadly aim.
18 BAB
6 dex
5 WT
2 WF, and GWF
5 weapon18+(6+5)+(2+5)=18+11+7=29+7=36
with deadly aim in play that drops down to a +31
With rapidshot it drops down to a +29:p
itis +9 Dex and +2 frombracer of archery.
EDIT: S&%$, bracers of archery do not work with crossbow, what a fraud.
EDIT 2: Now the numbres should be ok.
Your character sheet had a 22 dex unless you changed it, not a 28 dex.
A 22 dex is a +6 mod, not a +9 mod.edit:Still has a 22 dex.
edit2:Well that extra 3 pushes you back to a +32.
Nicos, can you do it at lower levels?
RD cool character. I have not done the math that you or your critics have done but it seems like a solid character. I think your assessment that it is not the best fighter is probably right. It has been mentioned that a straight fighter might have made your point better.
I am playing a ranger right now. He has great skills that I would not have if I was a fighter but I would be doing more damage and doing it more consistenly. Obviously I am better at my favored enemies but still a straight fighter would have a higher hit and damage than I do against my prime enemy. Since our party lost its fighter my role has suffered quite a bit. I am a switch hitter which is cool, but I do not have the AC (or the gold to keep my AC) that I would have if I was a fighter. I love that rangers are casters and that can certainly help in many cases. However I hate having a bunch of 1 fight duration buffs on my spell list. This means that every fight we enter I have to make the decision to buff first or attack. Even if I chose to buff I am not going to buff for 3 rounds while the rest of the party gets nailed. Even though it would be safer for me and make me hit harder. Other than the party's cleric the party is squishies and the rogue. Now granted I can hide if I need to well, do some acrobatics, and do a lot of skills but that is part of the trade off.
I also rolled up a Barbarian because from what I understand at least one of us need to jump into something called the Cindermaw soon. Which I might not survive. Now the Barb comes a lot closer to the DPR output of a fighter while raging and soon would be able to pounce but the AC is noticably less. There seems to be very little love for feats in this thread but my Barbaian would have half the feats of the fighter. Which could open up a whole feat chain. Granted I am not suggesting that I am not going to enjoy pounce.
The thing is RD. For all the neat things this guy can do I'll bet you a dollar I can do more with a single classed fighter.I would like to see that. It would serve to prove my point in the OP better than Revin Bitter did.
I have no doubt your straight fighter will be better at combat, but I'm doubting you could do as much or more out of combat, and do it as well or better, than Bitter. Though I absolutely believe that fighters can be much more than people generally expect outside of combat, even I recognize the value of multiclassing.
Gauntlet Status: Thrown.
Now let's see what method you used to generate stats.
Thought I forgot didn't we?
In any case I'm just tossing this out there at this point.
So this is Tasha Sunscreamer an Aasimar Lorewarden 18.
RD most certainly has her beat on "neat tricks". I struggled a bit because for a whioel I wanted to ahave an animal companion then I realized that it would be a liability at this level unless I was mounting it. So instead I went with a slightly more defensive pole arm style that uses Eldritch heritage to drop laughing touch along with Dirty Trick and Stunning assault in one attack.
Mainly what she has are all the major knowledges covered and a fair amount of other skills handled to boot. She's not the "Dark Prince of Ravens and being Deep" that our friend here is but she's also more likely to be accepted at most tables. I imagine if we went with the assumption that there is a crafter in the group she could turn out much much nastier being able to haul around more dangerous gear.
If I were to rebuild her I would go with a sunder focus instead and use Racial Heritage to get Shatterspell being even more useful to a group by dint of being able to sunder spell effects.
In any case I'm happy with what I've done and now need ot move on to other things.