During a session this weekend, one of my players (an 8th level Witch) tried using the Spite spell (a 4th level Witch spell) to duplicate Enervation (which is not on the Witch's spell list) on herself. I ended up not allowing it, knowing that Enveration is a Wizard/Sorcerer spell only and because the player informed me well after his turn was over - "Oh yeah, you get hit with eneveration"... This is beyond the statute of limitations - even for what I'll allow myself to change. (I forgot assassins had evasion one round earlier...)
That scenario aside, I think that Spite was used incorrectly and I'm hoping someone else can confirm this for me. As I understand it, when you cast Spite, as part of your action you can expend any other spell you have prepared of 4th level or lower (in addition to Spite) that has a range of touch. That spell will then go off the next time an enemy touches you.
Am I correct here, or does the Spite really spell allow you to duplicate ANY spell of 4th level or lower (whether it's on your list or not) and only require you to expend the Spite spell itself? To me, this seems horribly wrong, since Wish (the most powerful spell in the game) only allows you to utilize spells not on your list at 2 levels lower.
The one thread I found was from 2010, so I didn't see the need to perform thread necromancy, but the single response to that thread was in agreement with my reading of the spell. I'm just looking for additional input before letting my player know that his interpretation of the spell is incorrect and that he can choose another spell if he wishes... Thanks!
Humm that is interesting. I don't have an answer for you but do keep in mind it has a 250 Component cost so no matter what way it works it cost resources.
Though I agree off list spells seem like a no go. Where I am unsure is if it expends 2 spells or just spite. Though none of this is RAW just my opinion.
EDIT- After seeing Defraeter's post I agree with him. Also feel kind of daft for not picking up on the part he highlighted.
It all makes sense as to why the spell has a full round cast time. Because its more or less two spells being cast.
Ok, thanks for the info guys. I had noticed the material cost and that was the only reason I even posted this, but it was fairly clear to me that it worked the way I thought, I just wanted confirmation. I'll contact the player and let him know the proper way the spell works and let him know that he can switch it out for another spell if he wishes.
I'm pretty sure Enervation is a Witch spell. If you look at a witch's spell list for 4th level, it's there.
I can't speak to using the Spite spell to duplicate any spell of 4th level or lower, but it looks to me like this particular witch could use it to duplicate Enervation.
Hmm, you are correct - it is on the Witch's Spell list... Odd, since the Enervation spell shows it as "Enervation School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 4" only... Ok, so Enervation is a go, but it still costs 2 spell slots and 250 gold pieces.
While I don't disagree RAW on any of this am I the only one that thinks 250gp + 2 spell slots+ full round action is a very high cost for what this does?
Sure its interesting but one stikeback spell is hardly powerful enough to be worth that cost. At least IMO.
During a session this weekend, one of my players (an 8th level Witch) tried using the Spite spell (a 4th level Witch spell) to duplicate Enervation (which is not on the Witch's spell list) on herself.
Spite: "Choose a single touch range spell of 4th level or lower with a casting time of 1 standard action or less."
Enervation: "Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)"
Enervation is not a legal option for Spite, since it does not have a range of Touch.
Spite: "As part of the action of casting spite, you cast the associated spell and bind it into a defensive ward"
In order to cast the associate spell, you must be able to cast the associated spell. For the witch this means she must know and prepare the associated spell.
enervation need a ranged touch attack (see text). I think all the ranged touch attack has "close" in their "Range: xxxxx".
It's the case of the spells "ray"...
Yes, it's a ray spell, which uses a ranged touch attack.
It's not a touch spell. The range is not touch. It doesn't follow the rules for touch spells. (no free action attack the round you cast, no holding the charge, etc.) It's not a legal option for Spite.
Hmm, you are correct - it is on the Witch's Spell list... Odd, since the Enervation spell shows it as "Enervation School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 4" only... Ok, so Enervation is a go, but it still costs 2 spell slots and 250 gold pieces.
As you know, Enervation was a Core rules spell released before the Witch class. Witches aren't the only newer class to inherit core spells that make no mention of the new class.
If the ray are not "ranged touch", what are spells which are ranged touch????
I don't see any...
It would mean Spit has no use.
"Choose a single touch range spell"
That means choose a single spell with a range of "touch".
Range: "A spell's range indicates how far from you it can reach, as defined in the range entry of the spell description."
Touch: "You must touch a creature or object to affect it."
For example:
Inflict Light Wounds: "Range touch"
"touch range" is not the same as "ranged touch"