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you can intimidate to demoralize. fine. you succeed and have them demoralized for a few rounds.
when you use the next round to demoralize again, are you "trying again" ( setting the DC 5 higher ), when you try to add additional rounds?
i know you are literally trying to demoralize them again. the "try again" listing for most skills just presumes failure.
The DC only goes up with failure. In effect, you become less threatening the more you attempt to seem threatening and failing miserably at it.
Scaring someone you've already intimidated to keep them scared wouldn't up the DC.
I do wish that part was written better.
And labeled as a mind-affecting fear effect.
And allowed to stack with other sources of fear.
And when using intmidate as "Klingon Diplomacy," have the "time till it wears off" tick down AFTER you've left, and not while you're still standing there.
The entire skill could use a rewrite, honestly...
I might consider upping the DC 1 or 2, depending on the specific circumstances, but not 5. It is a little bit tougher, but not that much, since it usually only lasts a round or two anyway. Maybe an increase of 1 for every two rounds beyond the first two; 4 rounds is plenty in most combats, and gives the character using it motivation to close the deal before the lack of results starts to kill the effect.
Is fear a mind-effecting effect?
I would say so.
School necromancy [fear, mind-affecting]; Level bard 1, cleric 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
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Is fear a mind-effecting effect?
Fear spells (or spells that create a fear condition, see spell description) are mind effecting and the fear abilities (SU or SP) are mind effecting too.
The fear conditions itself (shaken, frightened, panicked) have nothing in their description regarding mind effecting.
So the real question is "is demoralize a mind effecting effect" and "what is with abilities that create a fear condition without beeing a regular fear spell/SU/SP (like demoralize, different rogue abilities..)" ?
Well, that is the spell.
Are all fear effects considered mind-effecting effects?
I haven't looked any further, but I can't think of any reason why the spell would be different from other fear-inducing methods.
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The spell has the mind-effecting descriptor.
There is nothing to verify that a demoralize effect is a mind-effecting effect.
There is a verification that creatures without intelligence cannot be effected by Morale effects.
Bonus (Morale)
A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Non-intelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.
So, as of now, it seems that an immunity to mind-effecting effects does not equal an immunity to Morale effects, but a lack of intelligence does.
The DC only goes up with failure. In effect, you become less threatening the more you attempt to seem threatening and failing miserably at it.
Scaring someone you've already intimidated to keep them scared wouldn't up the DC.
I do wish that part was written better.
And labeled as a mind-affecting fear effect.
And allowed to stack with other sources of fear.
And when using intmidate as "Klingon Diplomacy," have the "time till it wears off" tick down AFTER you've left, and not while you're still standing there.
The entire skill could use a rewrite, honestly...
I wouldn't mind taking a penalty if the effect could stack in subsequent rounds. Right now the best you can do is shaken.
(Which is still nice...I'd just like to be able to carry it further to abject terror...)
Shaken is a fear effect.
Fear attacks create fear effects (one of which can be shaken).
Fear attacks are ALL mind-affecting fear effects.
Demoralise does not specify that it is a fear attack (nor is the Intimidate skill listed as one of the things that is a fear attack).
Make of this what you will.
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There is nothing to verify that a demoralize effect is a mind-effecting effect.
Shaken doesn't confer a morale penalty. just a penalty. Shaken is a fear effect. So any condition that inflicts shaken is a Fear effect.
Demoralize inspires the shaken condition, a fear effect.
this should be a Demoralize (EX) [ mind-affecting, fear ] effect. otherwise you could Demoralize Undead creatures, even unintelligent ones.
or the best way to look at it, is that Fear is always a Mind Effecting, Fear effect. So anything immune to either Mind Effecting ( undead, probably plants ) or fear (paladins of a certain level ), wouldn't be subject to shaken etc.
the bestiary entry for Fear confirms that:
Fear (Su or Sp) Fear attacks can have various effects.Fear Aura (Su) The use of this ability is a free action. The aura can freeze an opponent (as in the case of a mummy's despair) or function like the fear spell. Other effects are possible. A fear aura is an area effect. The descriptive text gives the size and kind of the area.
Fear Cone (Sp) and Ray (Su) These effects usually work like the fear spell.
If a fear effect allows a saving throw, it is a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 fearsome creature's racial HD + creature's Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects.
Format: fear aura (30 ft., DC 17); Location: Aura.
Format: fear cone (50 ft., DC 19); Location: Special Attacks.
and realistically, I'd argue that its entirely true. to have a morale, you must have a mind capable of being encouraged or discouraged.
Again, an intimidator shouldn't be punished for success. That passage is clearly supposed to be in reference to failing and retrying. Being scary 6 seconds ago doesn't make you less scary now.
The DC only goes up with failure. In effect, you become less threatening the more you attempt to seem threatening and failing miserably at it.
Scaring someone you've already intimidated to keep them scared wouldn't up the DC.
I do wish that part was written better.
And labeled as a mind-affecting fear effect.
And allowed to stack with other sources of fear.
And when using intmidate as "Klingon Diplomacy," have the "time till it wears off" tick down AFTER you've left, and not while you're still standing there.
The entire skill could use a rewrite, honestly...I wouldn't mind taking a penalty if the effect could stack in subsequent rounds. Right now the best you can do is shaken.
(Which is still nice...I'd just like to be able to carry it further to abject terror...)
I'm not even asking for it to stack with itself.
Just stack with other fear effects. That it doesn't is stupid and pointless.