RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So, in Golarion, a cleric or other divine spellcaster can be one alignment step awy from her god.
What does Pharasma do with such souls, when it comes time to weigh them? What happens to a Lawful Neutral cleric of Asmodeus? It seems wrong to condemn a non-evil soul to the tortures of Hell, but it seems equally cruel to separate a cleric from her god for all eternity.
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So, in Golarion, a cleric or other divine spellcaster can be one alignment step awy from her god.
What does Pharasma do with such souls, when it comes time to weigh them? What happens to a Lawful Neutral cleric of Asmodeus? It seems wrong to condemn a non-evil soul to the tortures of Hell, but it seems equally cruel to separate a cleric from her god for all eternity.
In Asmodeus's case, I really don't see him granting his servants any powers without having them sign on a dotted line first. If that's the case, then that servant is damned regardless of alignment.
I've always assumed it involved a bit of voluntary override. You chose to revere this deity despite the differences in your personality, you thus overruled your default afterlife reservation - Nirvana in this case - and attached yourself to the one connected to your new patron - in this case Hell.
By my reading, yeah. Might get stuck in an accounting office in the afterlife though. Not sure if that's an improvement.
I suspect it's also a matter of "does the deity find their service acceptable, or constantly pushing the limits." I could see Abadar shuffling some cases off to Asmodeus -- or Iomedae, if they go the other way. Are you more about the city-building, or more about abusing the city's laws for your personal goals?
Ha! I love that idea. "You served me ... that doesn't mean you served me well."
So now I'm up in heaven with St. Peter
By the pearly gates
And it's obvious he doesn't like
The Nehru jacket that I'm wearing
He tells me that they've got a dress codeWell, he lets me into heaven anyway
But I get the room next to the noisy ice machine
For all eternity
What about the opposite situation -- a Lawful Neutral cleric of a Lawful Good god? It is hard to picture a non-good character getting into Heaven -- but if deity overrides alignment, that is exactly what would have to happen.
I imagine those that don't quite match up are limited to the fringes, then after some time spent in their deity's realm I imagine most would drift closer to the ethos of the realm they're in. *shrug*
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IIRC(and it's been a while), I think it was James Jacobs that described this as working like:
If a character is LE in a way that suits Abadar and is in line with what that god stands for and had Abadar's general approval, that soul typically goes to Abadar's domain. If that character was LE in a way that fell outside Abadar's graces, that character typically goes to the alignment plane suiting the alignment.
That's the generalized view of it I think. There are more specific rewards and punishments specific to each deity for specific virtues and grievous sins. (specific specific specific) For example, Erastil worshippers who commit suicide have a different fate from say, Shelynite worshippers who do the same.
And even for those souls that do make it to their god's domain despite the mismatch of ethos or morality, there may be different states of being or standing within that domain. Whether they are locked into that status or can continue to groe closer to their god and change probably depends on the god.
So the Irori worshipper who spent his life living for others probably goes to Heaven rather than Irori's domain, and would likely be happier there. That is, if he didn't just reincarnate to try again, though it may have been some level of enlightenment that pushed him towards an afterlife destination.
The LE Hellknight absolutist that managed to not become a monster may very well wind up in Axis, where Inevitables wind up telling her to lighten the hell up.
The CG, CN, and CE Gorumites that killed each other in that awesome melee-a-trois on the roof of a burning fortress in the middle of a lightning storm made Gorum very happy, and they're all bound for eternal rematches and replays in Gorum's domain*.
*which, like Calistria's domain, is located in the plane of Elysium. Which is really neat and really weird when one considers the implications of the shadier sorts that could wind up in those gods' realms.
This gets even more confusing when you think of deities that live in planes not aligned with them. For example, Norgorber (NE) resides in Axis (LN). All of the elemental lords are evil, but they reside on neutral planes, similar to Zon-Kuthon being evil, but residing on the neutral Shadow Plane. Calistria is CN, but she lives in the CG Elysium, so where do her antipaladins go?
- Calistria is CN, but she lives in the CG Elysium, so where do her antipaladins go?
...I'd never thought of an anti-paladin following a neutral god before; Calistria seems like a really good fit, too!
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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James Jacobs has said when a creature goes to its eternal residence upon death it does not remember its mortal life (except rare cases). I would think the creature's soul would then mold itself to the realm it finds itself in. So if it was LE in life and went to Abadar's realm it would end up LN.
In Faiths of Corruption both Calistria & Gorum have Anti-Paldin Codes, which implies that they both have Anti-Paladins. The Codes also kind of imply that their Anti-Paladins can get away with being a bit less evil than your average Anti-Paladin.
Honestly, it seems to me that the gods' domains would automatically overrule any alignment restrictions-- the ethos of a deity is a meaningful distinction, while the alignment system is merely an attempt to categorize those things.
Of course, by my notions, that means that every deity's domain would be a separate plane or demiplane only loosely connected to the alignment planes or to shared pantheon space, if at all.
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Honestly, it seems to me that the gods' domains would automatically overrule any alignment restrictions-- the ethos of a deity is a meaningful distinction, while the alignment system is merely an attempt to categorize those things.
Because celestial/fiendish/etc. creatures are not good/evil/etc. in Pathfinder, the 'planes of good' and 'planes of evil' are already teeming with non-good and non-evil creatures.
I don't think it's any more of a stretch for souls whose alignments aren't 100% sympatico with the planes alignment to also be allowed past the gates.
This gets even more confusing when you think of deities that live in planes not aligned with them. For example, Norgorber (NE) resides in Axis (LN). All of the elemental lords are evil, but they reside on neutral planes, similar to Zon-Kuthon being evil, but residing on the neutral Shadow Plane. Calistria is CN, but she lives in the CG Elysium, so where do her antipaladins go?
I think the domains of the gods are sort of like embassies where within the bounds of the demesne, the rules are set by the god, not the plane. So if Calistria has her pet anti-paladin who did a swell job of revenge and trickery with enough lust to keep up appearances, she could have him right there with her. The gate guards for Elysium, instead of getting weirded out by Pharasma sending them a CE soul, just go, "Oh, another delivery for Calistria" and let it slide.
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This gets even more confusing when you think of deities that live in planes not aligned with them. For example, Norgorber (NE) resides in Axis (LN). All of the elemental lords are evil, but they reside on neutral planes, similar to Zon-Kuthon being evil, but residing on the neutral Shadow Plane. Calistria is CN, but she lives in the CG Elysium, so where do her antipaladins go?I think the domains of the gods are sort of like embassies where within the bounds of the demesne, the rules are set by the god, not the plane. So if Calistria has her pet anti-paladin who did a swell job of revenge and trickery with enough lust to keep up appearances, she could have him right there with her. The gate guards for Elysium, instead of getting weirded out by Pharasma sending them a CE soul, just go, "Oh, another delivery for Calistria" and let it slide.
I'm certain Calistria gets her jollies from this. As goddess of trickery, finding various ways to smuggle anti-paladins past the azatas must be a constant source of amusement, and those few times she fails would give her an excuse for real vengeance.
Lust is for when Cayden comes by to tell her this isn't cool. But he's usually drunk so an easy seduction, and she'll lie, and he'll forget about it.
Nah, when he's drunk, she has her Menotharian pull a fast one on him. When he's sober she does it herself. Then it might actually be worth her time.