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I have a concept for a Barbarian that is 'tipping the cups' a bit, is likely Dwarven, and I would like to incorporate 2 levels of Alchemist (Ragechemist). Having both Morale and Alchemical bonuses stack is just skippy but dont want to black out every fight. Can any of these rage powers help add bonuses to the save? or does anyone know a Anti-Mutagen to deliver to my K.O. body?
*At 2nd level, whenever a ragechemist creates a mutagen that improves his Strength, that mutagen’s bonus to Strength increases by +2 and penalizes the alchemist’s Intelligence score.
Furthermore, while under the effects of this mutagen, whenever the alchemist takes damage, his rage grows, with detrimental effects. At the end of each turn that he takes hit point damage, the ragechemist must succeed at a Will saving throw (DC 15, or DC 20 if any of the damage came from a critical hit that turn) or take a –2 penalty on Will saving throws and to Intelligence. These penalties end 1 hour after the mutagen ends and stack with themselves. If the penalty lowers the ragechemist’s Intelligence score to 0, the ragechemist is comatose until 1 hour after the mutagen expires.
Since the Mutagen is Supernatural [su], I think things that help resist against [su] is appropriate:
Benefit: The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities. This bonus increases by +1 for every 4 levels the barbarian has attained. While raging, the barbarian cannot be a willing target of any spell and must make saving throws to resist all spells, even those cast by allies.
Or the lunacy rage that happens from the mutagen easily qualifies by description as Mind-Effecting:
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian increases her morale bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting effects by +1 for each alcoholic drink she consumes during her rage, to a maximum of +1 increase per four barbarian levels.
It's just an extra +2 str. Which you gave up by being a dwarf in the first place.
The best way to avoid the coma is to not be a comatose chemist at all.
Seriously, not worth it. The +1 hour knocked out past mutagen expiration isn't scaled to mutagen duration, so having an "only 20 minute" mutagen doesn't really make it wear off appreciably sooner.
Well luckily you get a bonus to Will saves as a barbarian so that meshes nicely. Iron Will is nice as well. Having played a Rage Chemist, I can tell you that going comatose is a fairly rare occasion. I played it till level 10 and I think it happened to me three times. Of them, only one of them was during a critical point. So I wouldn't worry about it too too mcuh. But I think Liquid Courage is a good idea and fits pretty damn thematically.
If you are using Superstition for this, you're much better served going human. Or an Aasimar with the scion of humanity racial feature and Angelkin variant (gets +str).
Then you get +2 str and can take the favored class option to boost superstition bonus.
Anything you do to mitigate the coma effect of rage mutagen that costs you 2 strength is effectively invalidating the whole exercise, as at that point you could have gotten the same end strength (and have higher out-of-mutagen str, too!) without all that hassle and the still remaining chance of going comatose.
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If you are using Superstition for this, you're much better served going human. Or an Aasimar with the scion of humanity racial feature and Angelkin variant (gets +str).
Then you get +2 str and can take the favored class option to boost superstition bonus.
Anything you do to mitigate the coma effect of rage mutagen that costs you 2 strength is effectively invalidating the whole exercise, as at that point you could have gotten the same end strength (and have higher out-of-mutagen str, too!) without all that hassle and the still remaining chance of going comatose.
I think that the Superstition bonus should help with the saves, seeing it is versus supernatural and all.
I am totally able to work this one as a human. so a 6th level Barbarian would have a +2 additional rider to the +3 at that point? Seems this would be useful to it and also make him nearly 'indomitable' as far as will saves.
I noticed one thing that is not complementary with Superstition. The bonus from Raging and Superstitious is both a Morale bonus. Does that mean they do not stack if the saving throw targets Will?
While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves.
Superstition (Ex) The barbarian gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws made to resist spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities.
Has anyone ever noticed this? That doesn't seem right
Yes, i complained about it long ago, as others have. Paizo has done nothing about it.
Worst of all, that's the save you probably care the most about as a barbarian. Fort is already high, reflex is unimportant unless the DM starts using dazing spell, will turns you into a mind slave or makes you calm or unconscious and die from sudden con drop.
Why one or the other couldn't just be an untyped bonus I have no idea. It's literally impossible to not use them both together, so it's not like you're being "cheesy" expecting the rage power to stack with rage...
Is your DM cool about houseruling away stupid RAW?
Another way to boost your will saves as so you dont go comatose it to take the tumor familiar that grants you +2 to will saves.
Another thing about barbarians and stupid raw is the mounted fury granting your horse a +2 moral str, and ferocious mount not stacking. What mounted barbarian would not get ferocious mount?
Another way to boost your will saves as so you dont go comatose it to take the tumor familiar that grants you +2 to will saves.
Another thing about barbarians and stupid raw is the mounted fury granting your horse a +2 moral str, and ferocious mount not stacking. What mounted barbarian would not get ferocious mount?
I actually always thought of Mounted Fury being alright if you want to saving up on rage rounds since it does make your rage cost double per turn. Same with Superstition, where it's a save that'll apply more of a bonus to certain effects as you level, while the normal +2 to Will is just for general things. *shrug*
Could dip Spellkiller Inquisitor if the comatose effect counts as a "mind affecting" effect, to roll 2d20 and take the higher on each save.
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It should be noted that the mutagen can't lower the Intelligence score to 0, so you will never become unconscious from the mutagen. A cumulative penalty on Will Saves is still pretty horrible, though.
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
i would say superstitious applies to the save (it's a su ability after all),
i WOULDN'T say that liquid courage applies, though...
remember: whatever you get your save bonus up to, you will still fail that save 1/20 times...
since you're a dwarf, i would probably just take steelsoul, which ups your racial bonus vs. magic (including su)
and not bother with the problematic side of superstitious (e.g. vs. allies' heals, dimension doors, etc)
Quandry: If he does stay Dwarf, Steel Soul, and there's also a trait, I think called Zest for Battle. Ends up making the racial save bonus a +5 total. Not sure at what level human superstition build would surpas that, factoring in that the +2 it starts at is completely wasted, by RAW.
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Human Barbarians, of course, get the '+1/3 to the bonus from the superstitious rage power' favoured class option, if that rage power is going to be central to the character. Plus the Heart of the Fields alternate racial trait's ability to shrug off a fatigue or exhaustion effect once per day can be priceless to a Barbarian.
The Rage Mutagen penalty isn't really that bad: the save's target DC is static, so gets less and less likely as you level. Will save rerolls are nice if you're really worried about that potential '1': Greater Iron Will and the like...
... Of course, killing all the bad guys before they get a chance to damage you works too... ;)
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I was thinking of dipping a level of Oracle, for the ever useful Lame curse and ignore fatigue after level 9. (1 oracle + .5 per other class)
Thinking the same as Stream of the Sky, that the ragechemist mutagen deals with the mind, should be able to be resisted with Mind-effecting saves. The Bones Mystery has this Revelations which would work nicely:
Near Death (Su): You gain a +2 insight bonus on saves against diseases, mind-affecting effects, and poisons...
The influence would be very easy, 'ole tippy cup wandered too close to the wheat/fungus thresher and came out of it with a near death experience (Oracle). Also the saves for a 1st level oracle is +0/+0/+2 and furthermore would boost Will saves.
The dwarven stacking trait is Glory of Old (Regional Five Kings Mountains)
In your veins flows the blood of dwarven heroes from Tar Taargadth. You receive a +1 trait bonus on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and poison.