RAW on illusions states:
Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief)
Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.
A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.
A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn't real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.
So does this mean that if a wizard is standing in front of an ogre, casts defensively, manages his Concentration check and gets the spell off, that then when he becomes invisible that the creature gets a Will save (however low that might be) to resist the effect?
How does the ogre know the wizard became invisible, and didn't simply vanish/disintegrate/teleport/change into a gnat? It's not an illusion that the wizard became invisible, he DID become not-visible, which happens to be a spell of the Illusion class. It's not an illusionary version of something else.
Now, if the wizard had made an illusory copy of himself, that would be a different matter, although he would probably still figure out which one is which.
Nope.
If the wizard had cast the illusion that he'd turned into an armored knight, the first time the Ogre hits him, the ogre would get the save, because that hit didn't FEEL like it impacted armor.
But simple vanishing ? For all the ogre knows, that mage just teleported away.
Saving Throws and Illusions (Disbelief)
The rules for disbelief only apply to spells with a save for disbelief.
Silent Image: "Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with)"
Color Spray: "Saving Throw Will negates;"
They're both illusion spells, but only the one that says disbelief has a save to disbelieve.
A clever wizard would use it like "I AM NOT THE WIZARD, I AM YOUR CONSCIENCE". and "YOU SHOULD KILL YOUR MASTER AND TAKE HIS STUFF".
|
Old version of DnD yes, a will save made the person visible to you.
New version is questionable as it's written as though it wouldn't, particularly in that greater invisibility allows you to atk and remain invisible and atking would certainly reveal something to be amiss.
Personally I would rule that a successful will save makes you beleive something is there that you can't see (thus you realize that what you see isn't true, yet it still matters enough to be useable AKA you disbelieve the fact that nothing is there)
I always play that any illusion not in the targets head remains as is and a save merely allows you to realize that it's an illusion, though you still see it (or see nothing in this case). Doesn't make sense to me that a hologram in the air can be seen by some people but other's watch it vanish, or vice-versa.
Ninjad: Good point grick, I didn't notice that.
However the old version really did, I was reading about how the wizard became visible to any one who made their save.
|
Here is the Effect block from the spell:
EFFECT
Range personal or touch
Target you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless) or yes (harmless, object)
The important bits are the Target and Saving Throw spots. The Target in your example is the wizard. The wizard is entitled to the Will save, but he's got no reason to roll it because the effect is harmless and beneficial. The ogre gets no save because he isn't the Target. The ogre is only entitled to a save versus the spell if the wizard is trying to make the ogre invisible for some reason.
Here is the Effect block from the spell:
EFFECT
Range personal or touch
Target you or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lbs./level
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes (harmless) or yes (harmless, object)The important bits are the Target and Saving Throw spots. The Target in your example is the wizard. The wizard is entitled to the Will save, but he's got no reason to roll it because the effect is harmless and beneficial. The ogre gets no save because he isn't the Target. The ogre is only entitled to a save versus the spell if the wizard is trying to make the ogre invisible for some reason.
So if you find an especially dumb ogre, you could cast greater invisibility on the ogre, and then tell him that is no more, and that he should leave and never return!
|
|
So if you find an especially dumb ogre, you could cast greater invisibility on the ogre, and then tell him that is no more, and that he should leave and never return!
With a high Bluff roll and a handful of dirt, you might convince an exceptionally stupid creature you've disintegrated their body and are now using your "magical ghost-talking ability" to tell them they should proceed toward the light.
So if you find an especially dumb ogre, you could cast greater invisibility on the ogre, and then tell him that is no more, and that he should leave and never return!With a high Bluff roll and a handful of dirt, you might convince an exceptionally stupid creature you've disintegrated their body and are now using your "magical ghost-talking ability" to tell them they should proceed toward the light.
the light happens to be dancing lights hanging over the edge of a cliff! I like it.