I am new to pathfinder. Starting with some friends and trying to build a solid character. As i know i cant out damage the barbarian in my group i thought i would see what i could do with kensei.
Our dm is using the crit table, so i have decided to use a wakazashi, combined with keen eventually improved critical and haste/speed. I want to get as many attacks as i can for possible crits again maybe not for damage but for the possible affects that could come with those crits.
However i have been thinking about the fact that I am a Tiefling and i have prehensile tail with grappling tail feat.
My thought is if i could do disarms relatively good, i could use tail to grab weapon if knocked to the ground.
Any suggestions on this and how to do it efficiently. I dont know much about disarm rules but looking for pointers in feats, magic items, and anything else that might be worth noting.
Thanks.
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1) keen and improved critical don't stack.
2) if you want to crit alot you need to dual wield (not really an option for a kensai). You are correct that you want an 18-20 crit range weapon, boost that to 15-20, and haste/speed to get an extra attack to maximize your crit chance.
3) it seems there is no advantage to using a wakizashi instead of a katana. take that for what you will. You may also want to consider the Dawnflower Dervish feat to cut your dependence on str (more on that later).
4) if you aren't already thinking it, you want critical focus at level 13, and probably bleeding and/or staggering critcal soon after.
5) you will be in melee, with no armor, as a d8 HD class, based on int and str (meaning lower dex and con). You will need to take EXTREME steps to boost your survival. Bracers of armor (or mage armor), ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, a high con score, the toughness feat, using your favored class for HP: these are all things you should consider.
1) keen and improved critical don't stack.
2) if you want to crit alot you need to dual wield (not really an option for a kensai). You are correct that you want an 18-20 crit range weapon, boost that to 15-20, and haste/speed to get an extra attack to maximize your crit chance.
3) it seems there is no advantage to using a wakizashi instead of a katana. take that for what you will. You may also want to consider the Dawnflower Dervish feat to cut your dependence on str (more on that later).
4) if you aren't already thinking it, you want critical focus at level 13, and probably bleeding and/or staggering critcal soon after.
5) you will be in melee, with no armor, as a d8 HD class, based on int and str (meaning lower dex and con). You will need to take EXTREME steps to boost your survival. Bracers of armor (or mage armor), ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, a high con score, the toughness feat, using your favored class for HP: these are all things you should consider.
1. i knew that, what i was going to do was use keen through my arcane pool until i can get improved critical.
2. cant dual wield, so thats out, however, spell strike creates an extra attack by using touch attacks. So not as often but still its there.
3. Katana cannot gain the benefit of weapon finesse. Otherwise i would use it.
4. Looking at crit feats and disarm feats.
5. I get no armor but I get Canny defense so int plus dex. My ability points will increase my armor. Magic int helm, Dex belt. bracers of armor, ring of deflection amulet of natural armor and my Con is 14. While having 19 Dex and 18 Int. We rolled our numbers. So i am sitting ok.
Any other thoughts, what about disarm. My thought on this was if i used disarm could i use Grasping Tail to grab opponents weapon after i disarmed them?
Falcata. 17-20 x 5 at 20 th.
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Falcata. 17-20 x 5 at 20 th.
Falcatas are great for weapon damage, but the Magus's schtick is critting with spells. And, since spells are x2 crit regardless of the weapon you deliver them with, crit range is the top priority.
I can second the motion that Kensai don't need to worry about AC. With nothing but a +1 Ring of Deflection and +2 Silken Ceremonial Armor, my PFS Kensai (Bard 1/MAgus 10) generally sits at 31 AC (with Shield) or 34 AC (with Spell Shield). At level 1, Logan's Kensai will have 18 AC (+4 Dex, +1 Int, +3 Studded Leather), the same as a Fighter in a breastplate with a heavy shield.
Don't sweat your AC at all. The only two stats you need are DEX and INT, and just don't tank your CON and you'll be fine. I have a 10th level Kensai in the Kingmaker AP and he rarely gets hit. When he does, you always have things like Vampire Touch to help you out. You do need a Finesse weapon or Scimitar with Dervish Dance though. Being Kingmaker, I went with Aldori Dueling Sword with the Agile enhancement on it, but the crit range isn't as good as a scimitar.
For extra Kensai AC:
Armor of the Pit
Your fiendish traits take the form of a protective scaly skin.
Prerequisite: Tiefling.Benefit: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus.
Special: If you have the scaled skin racial trait, you instead gain resistance 5 to two of the following energy types that you don't have resistance to already: cold, electricity, and fire.From the new races book so its legit.
Nice, i appreciate the recap on this. I overlooked this feat because i thought i lost the resistances but i missed that if i took feat with trait i kept those bonuses and added the armor.
I am not using scimitar my dm wont allow Dervish dance. Benefit to wakazashi is that i get finesse, deadly, and Piercing/Slashing weapon. Plus we have a ninja in our group so might do some craft weapon stuff.
My main question for this advice forum that you guys might be able to help with.
With Grasping Tail/Prehensile Tail. If i tried to do a disarm magus maybe not being the best but good at it. Could i disarm use my tail to grab there fallen weapon without provoking. And if i could do this, would it be viable for a magus, can they make strong disarming characters?
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Disarming will be slightly difficult as the magus is a 3/4 BAB class. You can do it, but CMDs get stupid high pretty quickly, and most of the things with truly dangerous melee attacks can't be disarmed anyway.
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
Sounds like if you used a weapon you don't get to pick it up for free, so you would be looking at using the swift from grasping tail.
Grasping Tail
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).
You will be able to pick up one item they drop as a swift action when you disarm so long as you don't have the greater disarm feat.
Greater Disarm (Combat)
You can knock weapons far from an enemy's grasp.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to disarm a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Disarm. Whenever you successfully disarm an opponent, the weapon lands 15 feet away from its previous wielder, in a random direction.
Normal: Disarmed weapons and gear land at the feet of the disarmed creature.
Bold mine. So basically it's going to be hard for you to disarm between your 3/4 BAB and not being able to take greater disarm, assuming you want to pick up the weapon. You could just scrap the whole grasping tail thing and you might be able to do it. Fighters can have a hard time disarming with full BAB, imp/greater disarm, weapon training, high strength, and magic weapons. Not saying you can't do it, just that you shouldn't expect stellar results.
For extra Kensai AC:
Armor of the Pit
Your fiendish traits take the form of a protective scaly skin.
Prerequisite: Tiefling.Benefit: You gain a +2 natural armor bonus.
Special: If you have the scaled skin racial trait, you instead gain resistance 5 to two of the following energy types that you don't have resistance to already: cold, electricity, and fire.From the new races book so its legit.
Nice, i appreciate the recap on this. I overlooked this feat because i thought i lost the resistances but i missed that if i took feat with trait i kept those bonuses and added the armor.
I am not using scimitar my dm wont allow Dervish dance. Benefit to wakazashi is that i get finesse, deadly, and Piercing/Slashing weapon. Plus we have a ninja in our group so might do some craft weapon stuff.
My main question for this advice forum that you guys might be able to help with.
With Grasping Tail/Prehensile Tail. If i tried to do a disarm magus maybe not being the best but good at it. Could i disarm use my tail to grab there fallen weapon without provoking. And if i could do this, would it be viable for a magus, can they make strong disarming characters?
Additional question.
With weapon finesse feat do i use my str or dex for CMB's. The way i read this im thinking i would get to use dex. Please teach me...
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
You have to get a feat to use Dex on CMBs, I think. Also, check out the Manuever Mastery arcana, should help a bit.
Yah i found that, agile maneuvers. But what confuses me is these two sentences.
Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
Based on what its saying I would get to add Weapon focus and finesse because it directly affects the weapon im using on attacks.
If i were to take cmb at face value its +2 bab + +2 Str = +4 CMB
But reading those sentences out of the paragraph as a whole I would get.
+2 BAB + +4 Dex(weapon finesse) + +1 Weapon Focus + +1 Masterwork weapon.
Or am i completely off base.
My one thought as to why i would be right. is that looking at my character, if i followed that logic, my standard attack is +8 but my unarmed attacks are +4. It would be highly unusual for an attack using the same weapon your using to make attacks be the same as unarmed attacks.
If you are using a weapon to disarm, you get to add weapon focus, weapon fibesse if it is an eligible weapon, weapon enhancements and anything else that would normally affect the weapon attack.
If you are using a weapon to disarm, you get to add weapon focus, weapon fibesse if it is an eligible weapon, weapon enhancements and anything else that would normally affect the weapon attack.
Nice, i thought so. Thanks.
I like the maneuver mastery, may not pick it up till later though, I think i will test out how often i can disarm and how much of a factor it is in combat.
Anyone know if this would work without provoking.
Prerequisites: Tiefling.
Benefit: You can use your tail to grab stowed items. While you cannot wield weapons with your tail, you can use it to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on your person as a swift action.
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).
granted i would provoke from an unarmed foe, so regardless would probably still be worthwile if i could make a strong disarm option.
Disarming will be slightly difficult as the magus is a 3/4 BAB class. You can do it, but CMDs get stupid high pretty quickly, and most of the things with truly dangerous melee attacks can't be disarmed anyway.
If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.Sounds like if you used a weapon you don't get to pick it up for free, so you would be looking at using the swift from grasping tail.
Grasping Tail
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).You will be able to pick up one item they drop as a swift action when you disarm so long as you don't have the greater disarm feat.
Bold mine. So basically it's going to be hard for you to disarm between your 3/4 BAB and not being able to take greater disarm, assuming you want to pick up the weapon. You could just scrap the whole grasping tail thing and you might be able to do it. Fighters can have a hard time disarming with full BAB, imp/greater disarm, weapon training, high strength, and magic weapons. Not saying you can't do it, just that you shouldn't expect stellar results.Greater Disarm (Combat)
You can knock weapons far from an enemy's grasp.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, base attack bonus +6, Int 13.
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to disarm a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Disarm. Whenever you successfully disarm an opponent, the weapon lands 15 feet away from its previous wielder, in a random direction.
Normal: Disarmed weapons and gear land at the feet of the disarmed creature.
Thanks for this information. Something I was looking at was Maneuver Mastery, which lets my magus levels equal my bab for doing Disarms. Aditonally I can use my dex with weapon finesse, as for Improved Disarm and Greater Disarm i will be using Kensei magus and i believe i get a bonus to purchasing feats through one of the class features at 7 i think. even so i could still easily go this route.
Thoughts on that.
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Looks like you've got it figured out. Shame about grasping tail, but that's how it goes sometimes. I still maintain that disarm isn't a very good maneuver unless you know you will fight many armed opponents beforehand, but if you want to do it your kensai looks up to the task.
Also note, although with a high crit weapon like that you would normally want to put thundering/___ burst/speed on it, you will need to get the enhancement bonus to +5 as fast as possible to help with the disarm. A weapon with the disarm property gets an additional +2, but I can't think of a one-handed one with an expanded crit range.
Looks like you've got it figured out. Shame about grasping tail, but that's how it goes sometimes. I still maintain that disarm isn't a very good maneuver unless you know you will fight many armed opponents beforehand, but if you want to do it your kensai looks up to the task.
Also note, although with a high crit weapon like that you would normally want to put thundering/___ burst/speed on it, you will need to get the enhancement bonus to +5 as fast as possible to help with the disarm. A weapon with the disarm property gets an additional +2, but I can't think of a one-handed one with an expanded crit range.
Yah i think i have figured it out, im still unsure how much i will see a need for disarm, thought it would be a nice back up to crit build. As for the "Greater Disarm" is it that important to have for a disarm build. I realize the +2 is a bonus, but if i dont get that feat and use gasping tail instead to grab the weapon dropped to the targets feet. It serves the purpose both to disarm more permanently and possibly more.
As for the weapon i plan on running either Speed or dex based bonus damage as i will be able to get keen from arcane pool eventually get improved critical. I will be able to cast haste eventually also, so im working out what will be best option. I think im goaling for multiple uses of shocking grasp with many attacks and crit table/range damage.
Unless anyone has any alternate thoughts or options.