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Hey guys! I'm building a dragon disciple focused
both on melee and arcane casting, being an versatile
character.
Human Barbarian 2/Sorc 3/DD 8/Sorc x
20 pt buy:Str 15+2, dex 10, con 14, int 10, wis 8, cha 16
Feats:
(1) Power Attack, Skill Focus: Knowledge (Planes)
(3) Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal: Claws)
(5) Arcane Strike
(7) Empower Spell, Toughness
(9) Dazing Spell
(11) Improved Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal: Strength Of The Abyss)
(13) Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell
(15) Spell Perfection (Fireball)
(17) Greater Spell Penetration
On low level he will be mainly casting or raging and going melee
if needed. Mid level, he will cast better spells or raging/form
of the dragon and going melee.
On level 20, he will basically have 13 bab, 52 Str and average AC when
using form of the dragon III and rage, or he can cast up to 8
level spells.
Also, he's somewhat focused on blasting with fireball, doing an nice
amount of damage when needed (empowered maximized intensified fireball, for example :P)
What you guys think of this build?
pretty good. only thing that pops up at me is how good is his will save?
Hate to have the party dragon dominated, and then *shudder* take everyone apart.
I'm not sure if you want to focus power or spells, but the Robe of arcane heritage may be of use boosting bloodline stuff. (brings up the question, however if it would boost your eldritch heritage too.)
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thats an awesome idea ^^
if possible I want to focus on both. Basically surprise my enemies
everytime: if the big evil fighter comes to me thinking something like, "look, an caster wants to go melee! Ill crush him!" *Turns into dragon* "uh oh.." or casting powerfull stuff when going melee its not an good option ^^
What rage power will you select?
Are you thinking of a archetype for the Barbarian?
Do the claws from Abyssal and Draconic stack/double the number of rounds you use them?
Why take Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal: Claws) so early? You get Draconic claws as soon as you take a Sorc level, right?
Which dragon are you taking?
Why not put your Cha 16 to 15 and increase your Str from 17 to 18? You're going to bump the strength at 4th anyway, and you specify that he'll focus on melee (Str) in the early levels.
That looks like a fun build.
What Rage power are you going with? Or if you don't mind so much on rage powers, you could go with 4 levels of Sorc before DD to have earlier access to 2nd level spells.
Don't forget your bonus feats in your build. You should get one at 2, 5, and 8 of DD as well as 7 Sorc for a total of 4 more feats than you have listed.
Are you going armored at early levels? Have you decided on your early spells? You may wish to take advantage of some quickened touch spells like Vampiric Touch when full attacking. By the time you get your spell perfection, you can do a maximized quickened Vampiric touch every round with your full attack. Other touch spells are cool too.
Also, I do have a guide in the Guide to the Guides thread if you want any more of my general advice.
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wow, thats a lot of questions! :P
1- still dont know, any suggestions?
2- didnt thought about that too, im accepting suggestions ^^
3- im not sure, the abyssal claws will be on level-2 because
of the feat, but i think that will depend on gm thought
4- i will run off from uses pretty quickly, these from abyssal
will be something like a backup ^^
5- red dragon would give a bonus to the damage of my fireball,
but im not sure yet
6- good advice, i could rise cha on level 4 and then put the rest
on str :P
so, what you guys think? Can he do well in an optimised party?
can I improve his power even more? :P
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@Oterisk
thanks for posting here, i used your guide to make that build :P
still dont know about what rage powers to get, im looking for advice on that one, and i didnt noticed that there was feats missing! ill check it out again :P
I will go armored until i get sorcerer levels, then ill go with mage armor until i can afford the bracers.
didnt thought about early spells, ill check that out now ^^
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You may want to consider the unarmed fighter archetype rather than the barbarian for the first level or two. Choose Dragon Style, for charges that ignore difficult terrain and your allies. You won't have rage and other barb powers though.
I was also thinking of building one of these and taking the alternate human trait that lets you have 2 +2 ability scores.
Also, if you go human and go with skill focus, you should get the alternate racial trait that gives you skill focus at first, 8th and 16th levels in exchange for you level one feat. You will only have a few skills, but they will be good ones with such an option.
I also like unarmed fighter as a lead in to DD, I have one that I took 4 levels of Fighter so I could gain the amount of levels required for Martial Versatility. In order to make Dragon Style work the best, you have to have Weapon Focus (claws), Martial Versatility, Dragon Style, Dragon Ferocity, and Feral Combat Training. Then you get +100% Str mod added on your first attack and +50% added to all of your other attacks. With Dragon Form II you get six attacks a round. That's some pretty good math.
For Rage Powers, Moment of Clarity is a decent idea. Beast Totem isn't a bad idea either if you run long days and need more claw rounds.
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@oterisk
thats an great idea! The damage could easily surpass the fighter! Now i'm tempted to do that, haha ^^
I wonder what of the two builds would be more effective? The barb/sorc would get new spells sooner and could go up to 8 level spells, also having rage. The fighter would get new spells slower and up to just level 7, but his damage would be far better. Any suggestions?
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I agree with Oterisk on a 4th level of sorc - nets you 2nd level spells early on which makes you (much) more versatile.
I'd also drop (Greater) Spell Penatration - your CHA is not going to be stellar and I'd focus more on (self) buffs and battle field control which will not need to overcome SR.
The claws from abyssal and draconic do not stack duration-wise - not sure what you're aiming at here?
As rage power I'd suggest Fiend Totem, Lesser (Su) or Spirit Totem, Lesser (Su) for an extra attack.
If you're set on something else make sure it does not eat your swift action, since you'll need that to activate Arcane Strike!
I'd aim for 8th level spells. With the two feats you dissed you can grab Extend Spell and stay in FotD II even longer.
While fireball is an iconic spell and is potent when combined with Spell Perfection and Dazing Spell - have you thought about using fire shield in the same manner?
It adds some nice damage to your melee damage output - and that's what you're gonna do anyways when polymorphed into a dragon.
Let the others deal with the foes further away.
Ruyan.
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My 2 cents for the rage power, I'd go either Fiend totem, lesser for the extra gore attack, or for Moment of clarity for those time you really need to cast something but don't want to drop rage and become fatigued.
I am building a DD right now but I am planning on going 5 sorcerer to DD. A little more focused on casting but will still have the str later in the game to scrap it up in melee.
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Hey guys, thanks for all the reply! I'm thinking about taking the fiend totem for rage power, but i have a question: does that natural attack stacks with the others from dragon form? If yes, I could have 7 hits on a full attack!
Also, I did some changes on the feat list because some were missing:
(1) Skill Focus: Knowledge (Planes), Toughness
(3) Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal: Claws)
(5) Arcane Strike
(7) Extended Spell, Power Strike (bonus)
(9) Dazing Spell
(10) Improved Initiative (bonus)
(11) Improved Eldritch Heritage (Abyssal: Strength Of The Abyss)
(13) Spell Penetration, Quicken Spell (bonus)
(15) Spell Perfection
(17) Iron Will, Great Fortitude (bonus)
I decided that I will focus more on melee than casting spells, so I switched empower for extended, so I can buff myself for a longer time. Also, i want to maintaing my 8 level spells so i can eventually get the FoD III for the +10 on str ^^
About Spell perfection, I will probably use on a touch spell like oterisk suggested to make a combo with quicken every round :D
About the claws from abyssal, theyre prerequisite for the improved eldritch heritage, where I can get up to +6 on my str, and on level 3~ I will be running out of dragon claws pretty quick, so I can use them as a backup. Another question: does bite from DD works on those claws too, or only on the ones from draconic bloodline?
Many of the rules concerning Dragon Disciples are debatable when it comes to the nitty gritty. You best bet is to ask your GM about such things, because some will allow you unlimited use of the claws, some will be really stringent on such things. It all depends on their style. The claws and bite should work together because you are "using your bloodline to grow claws", but again some people balk at that. Now that you have your build, I recommend talking about it with your GM and getting their input on what you want to accomplish with your character.
And have fun. DD's are cool.
DD's are cool.
Stop tempting me to get my ranger killed! Ah, well...
If that is all it takes for you to contemplate premeditated murder, than you have a bigger problem than I can help you with.