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Hi everyone...
Our group is currently playing through the Carrion Crown Adventure Path. I am playing a human bonded witch (with GM approval) and have become a bit unsatisfied with the class. However, our party really needs an arcane and divine caster!
Dwarf cavalier 1
Elf monk 1
Half-elf gunslinger 1
Human cleric of Pharasma 1
Human ranger 1
Human witch 1
The cleric is going to multiclass with inquisitor in the next level or so. The player is picking up a feat that allows both classes to count towards his channel energy ability. So, the only other spellcaster in the party is my character.
While I feel that I am not really in the "zone" with my witch, I am wondering if playing a mystic theurge would be a better choice? More spells and versatility would be nice. Also, the witch does not get a lot of decent combat spells and that is a bit annoying too.
In this scenario, would a mystic theurge be a better choice than a witch?
On a different note, how would you build a witch with an Eastern European vampire feel (theme)?
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Witch is about de-buff and cursing enemies with a little bit of control on top that seems very vampire-ish to me. You also get some ability to aid your allies. If you want to blast you will be disappointed. I am not the worlds greatest optimizer (actually thats kind of a cop out im really lazy), Perhaps you could post more about why you are out of the zone and maybe we could help you get into it.
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I think the wizard is more my cup of tea, as the witch was the only option to allow me to cast spells from the arcane and divine spell lists so I could shore up our lack of a dedicated healer.
I am also unsure about hex choices. Slumber seems to be the most useful hex, with evil eye, flight, fortune and misfortune coming close behind. Cackle also appears to be a must as well.
While I do not think I have a feel for the class, I am wondering if mystic theurge might be a better choice for the party. It offers a ton of spells with some of the features of the wizard and cleric. Would it be a stronger choice for the type of party above?
Here are some details on my character:
Overlooking the town of Lepidstadt are the shunned ruins of Castle Barguest, the ancestral seat of House Sabbas and the source of countless tales of horror that still entertain the Sczarni at night around their campfires. These tales recount the measured descent into decadence, incest and other reprehensible delights that brought about the decline of the house throughout the centuries. The storytellers claim the bloodline traces its origins back to the reign of the Whispering Tyrant when unions between vampires and humans were rare, but not unheard of in Ustalav. In fact, the bards say, the family strived to maintain the purity of the blood through inconsistent interbreeding and this led to the last dhampir dying out a century ago.
The origins of the house begin with Count Silevran Sabbas, an ambitious and cunning warlord known for his harsh justice and unrelenting savagery, who desired nothing more than to enjoy the supremacy he had reaped from the blood and flesh of the land, the people. Setting out with his host from Lepidstadt, Silevran rode to Gallowspire and bent the knee to Tar-Baphon in exchange for immortality. The price, to his horror, was more than fealty... it was enslavement. From that night onwards, the count was a vampire and polluted his bloodline with his unholy seed.
However, immortality was short-lived for Silevran and his knights. The reign of Tar-Baphon was brought to an abrupt end by the Shining Crusade who stormed the walls of Gallowspire and brought light to the darkness. For the survivors of House Sabbas, the defeat of the Whispering Tyrant had also freed them from the eternal rule of the count. Younger sons took his place as head of the family and for many centuries the house elected a dhampir as its lord.
In the long centuries since, House Sabbas has become synonymous with heresy, madness and necromancy. The influence of Silevran lingered on and contaminated the blood of his heirs. The males in the family began to exhibit extreme frailties of mind and would become obsessed with exploring the darkest reaches of the land for hidden knowledge and riches. Some commentators that the family delved too deeply into the shadows and often returned to Castle Barguest changed; though, as they also grudgingly admit, with long forgotten magic and fabulous wealth. These same commentators always noted it was the fairer, more otherworldly, members of the family who exhibited the strangest behaviour and the strongest wanderlust.
While the family has been present in the Immortal Principality for almost a millennia, in the last century, the trajectories of the family’s fortunes have been in sharp decline and the excesses of blood and madness have taken their toll. Many members of the house have lived short and violent lives, with less and less being capable of interacting normally with the mundane world. Professor Aurelius Sabbas, late of Lepidstadt, was renowned for his eccentricities and his extensive knowledge of necromancy and the undead. However, even Aurelius succumbed to the lure of Gallowspire and has disappeared without word from his excavations in the ruins.
With his disappearance, the last scion of House Sabbas is Asaria, the daughter of Aurelius and his younger sister, Aleksandra. In his obsession to rediscover the legacy of his ancestors, Aurelius squandered his remaining fortune on archaeological digs within the precincts of Gallowspire itself. Now the local populace of the town now hope to place the madness of House Sabbas behind them. One remaining daughter, they theorise, is not enough to save the mad “heretics” and “necromancers” from dying out.
Life in Lepidstadt has not been easy for Asaria as the local populace consider her lands cursed and many shun her due to the queer reputation of her family that still lingers today. She has learned to survive in the face of prejudice and has grown a thick skin to deal with the treatment she receives from the dull and spiteful members of the superstitious populace. The university has become her sanctuary where she finds peace and tolerance, if not outright acceptance.
Asaria now looks to her future and how she is going to survive in a pragmatic and cynical world with no lands or wealth to lure any prospective suitors to her door. All that remains to her is an empty title and nothing more than the shunned memories of Castle Barguest. Desperately, she has clung to the arcane legacy of her house and strives to uncover the mysteries of magic that were once the obsession of her ancestors and that led them to breed with vampires. Asaria is preparing to make her mark on the world in ways that her relatives were incapable of doing themselves. She has accepted her situation and is delving deeper into the old lore to find the answers she seeks.
VISCOUNTESS ASARIA SABBAS
Female Human (Varisian) Bonded Witch 1
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hero Points 1
Init +2; Senses Perception +1
DEFENCE
AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
hp 7 (1d6+1)
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +3
OFFENCE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Dagger -2 (1d4-2/19-20/x2) and Silver Dagger -2 (1d4-3/19-20/x2) and Unarmed Strike -2 (1d3-2/20/x2)
Special Attacks Healing (1d8+1), Slumber (DC 14)
Bonded Witch Spells Prepared (CL 1st, +5 concentration, -2 melee touch, +2 ranged touch)
1 (2/day) - Burning Hands (DC 15), Mage Armor (DC 15)
0 (at will) - Detect Magic, Guidance, Read Magic (DC 14)
Patron occult; Bonded Item amulet (spirits)
STATISTICS
Str 7, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +0; CMB -2; CMD 10; Sanity 4; Trust +3 Ravengro
Feats Accursed Hex, Extra Hex
Traits Teacher's Pet: Knowledge (Religion), Ustalavic Noble
Skills Diplomacy +3, Heal +5, Knowledge (Arcana) +8, Knowledge (Nature) +8, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +10, Linguistics +5, Spellcraft +8, Use Magic Device +6
Languages Common, Draconic, Hallit, Jistka, Necril, Orc, Varisian
SQ Bonded Object (Sp), Bonded Object: Amulet (1/day), Earplugs, Healing (1d8+1) (Su), Hero Points (1), Slumber (Su)
Combat Gear Dagger, Silver Dagger; Other Gear Amulet, Backpack (4 @ 1.5 lbs), Case, wooden, Earplugs, Everburning torch, Flint and steel, Garlic (5), Hammer, Holy symbol, wooden: Pharasma, Holy Water Flask, Mirror, small steel, Potion: cure light wounds (CL 1st) (2), Potion: lesser restoration (CL 2nd), Pouch, belt (4 @ 0.58 lbs), Pouch, belt (empty), Pouch, belt (empty), Pouch, herb, Scroll case decorated with skeletons playing pipes, Scroll: Mage Armor (CL 1st), Sewing needle, Sheath, boot, Signet ring, Spell component pouch, Stake, wooden (2), Wrist sheath, spring loaded (1 @ 1 lbs); Wealth 0 pp, 20 gp, 9 sp, 6 cp; Encumbrance 22.08/70 lbs.
Hexes
1st-level: Healing*, Slumber
2nd-level: Evil Eye
4th-level: Charm
6th-level: Flight
7th-level: Fortune*
8th-level: Misfortune
9th-level: Cackle*
10th-level: Major Healing
12th-level: Retribution
14th-level: Ice Tomb
15th-level: Scar*
16th-level: Beast's Eye
'*'Gained from the Extra Hex feat
Feats
Human Bonus: Accursed Hex
1st-level: Extra Hex
3rd-level: Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion])
5th-level: Eldritch Heritage (sanguine: the blood is life)
7th-level: Extra Hex
9th-level: Extra Hex
11th-level: Improved Eldritch Heritage (sanguine: death's gift)
13th-level: Split Hex
15th-level: Extra Hex
17th-level: Greater Eldritch Heritage (sanguine: incorporeal form)
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Just curious, what are you envisioning the role of a Arcane caster is, in your party?
Blaster? Debuffer? Knowledge monkey?
If its as a blaster... playing a Oracle of Flame "could"... take on the role of a damage dealer and still be able to heal the party. (Including ability score damage, poisons and curses.)
Do note that you will only shine from lv 6 onwards. When you have access to the Fireball spell.
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Just curious, what are you envisioning the role of a Arcane caster is, in your party?
Blaster? Debuffer? Knowledge monkey?If its as a blaster... playing a Oracle of Flame "could"... take on the role of a damage dealer and still be able to heal the party. (Including ability score damage, poisons and curses.)
Do note that you will only shine from lv 6 onwards. When you have access to the Fireball spell.
I was going to say more or less this, so...
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Just curious, what are you envisioning the role of a Arcane caster is, in your party?
Blaster? Debuffer? Knowledge monkey?
I am thinking I need to cover as many bases as possible. I have been using the healing hex (against undead) and slumber hex a lot. Guidance has also been seeing a lot of use.
Basically, I am trying to cover as many roles as possible.
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Just curious, what are you envisioning the role of a Arcane caster is, in your party?
Blaster? Debuffer? Knowledge monkey?I am thinking I need to cover as many bases as possible. I have been using the healing hex (against undead) and slumber hex a lot. Guidance has also been seeing a lot of use.
Basically, I am trying to cover as many roles as possible.
And that's why you feel like your witch isn't cutting muster. Not to be rude.
You're spreading yourself too thin, and that's why you feel like your witch isn't doing what it should.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mystic theurge is pretty poor, IMHO. I'd much rather have a level six witch with several useful hexes and ready to get 4th level spells very soon, than a 3/3 cleric wizard combo. Not even a comparison in my mind.
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In your opinion, in this situation would a mystic theurge (clr 3/wiz 3 progression) be a better option?
It could be. The thing about the Mystic Theurge is, regardless of the number of spells you have, you still have the same number of actions per round. You're generally not going to be healing and blasting (or controlling/buffing/debuffing/etc.) in the same round. And you'll be well into the later half of the AP before you truly come into your own and your decreased spell level stops being a (serious) issue. The witch is a really good class, and you've chosen some of the right hexes. Perhaps reconsider your Patron and try for something that gives you a little more offensive oomph? Slumber is a fantastic Hex and is far more useful than the Sleep or Deep Slumber spells a wizard might take, you may find yourself missing it if you move to a theurge.
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Just a little advice.
Take a look at the Breath of Experience feat for Elves, Dwarfs and Gnomes.
It basically makes you a placebo bard/knowledge monkey, as you get +2 to all knowledge and profession checks and can make them untrained.
Take Breath of Experience, get a decent Int score, 12 could be enough.
And then grab whatever class/build combination you want to focus on.
You will cover a lot of skills and still be able to perform in combat.
If you must be a caster, focus on just one class, as it will pay off more in the long run.
Multi-classing works best if you start with a plan in mind.
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Witch is great and the slumber hex is also great.
Your planned progression doesn't get Cackle until late though, you may want to have that immediately after you get fortune or misfortune so you can spend your move actions making people suck/shine.
I'm guessing the EH: Sanguine are for thematic purposes? It's 4 of your 10 feats that don't do anything mechanically for your character really.
Advice based on the adventure path that you may or may not want to read
But just as a heads up, in Carrion Crown you might want to shy away from the mind-affecting debuffs a little... Slumber won't be useful a lot of the time, nor will Evil Eye etc so make sure you have other options and don't put too many resources into optimising them with, say Ability Focus or Accursed Hex
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What would you play if all the traditional class roles were filled?
I learned a long time ago that you should play what you want, and not feel obliged to fill a gap; that way leads to madness...or, at the very least, you not enjoying the game.
Let the DM worry about the lack of abilities. If healing is a problem, he can put in a few more potions (or wands, for the ranger). If arcane is lacking, he can throw in a few single use items that don't require UMDing.
In short:
Play what you want.
Enjoy the game.
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Have to agree to MacFetus here.
Check what YOU want to play, not what your party need.
If you don't want to play a healer, good, your party will rely heavily on potions etc.
If you play a character which you didn't like, you lose a lot of fun playing.
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Have to say I agree with Tryn.
What counts is what YOU want to do. You want to have fun blowing things up? Go sorcerer and let rip with fireballs. You want to heal the party? Go cleric or paladin. You want versatile arcane might? Go wizard.
At the end of the day, if no-one else is thinking about party balance and filling all the roles, why should you?