So let's say you have a mixed group with several very sneaky rogues (one with +28 stealth), but also a dwarven fighter that doesn't do stealth. Let's say we encounter enemies, and the rogues want to get a surprise round. If they go stealthy, they won't be detected, but the enemies are sure to recognize the dwarf. How is this resolved? I understand that a surprise round can occur when only some enemies are aware of my party, but what if all the enemies are only aware of part of my party?
If the enemies are aware of your dwarf stomping down the hallway, they're not going to be surprised. This will vary by GM and by situation, but generally if the orcs are ready to fight (they heard the dwarf) and the party is ready to fight (they know orcs live in that hole) then there's probably not a surprise round.
However, if the orcs are unaware of the rogues, they're probably basically denied dex against the rogues depending on how your table uses the stealth rules. This means if a rogue gets into combat without the orc realizing it, he can attack the orc and get sneak attack on his first attack. Not the other attacks, because once you've stabbed an orc, the orc knows you're there.
If the enemies are unaware of the rogues a surprise round occurs, with the rogues getting to act. Whenever some combatants are unaware of some other combatants there is a surprise round. In your example the enemies Perception check was enough to know the dwarf is there which triggers combat, but not high enough to know the rogues are there thus the rogues get a surprise round. This is assuming the party is aware of the enemies. If the party is unaware of the enemies then the enemies would get a surprise round because they are aware of the dwarf and the party is unaware of them.
The rule is pretty simple, but applying it to the awkward situation of the transition from narrative play to combat can get convoluted, just keep referring to the rule and don't let things Get over complicated. The primary thing for you to evaluate is who is aware of who at the start of combat, focus on that and you should be fine as once you know that determining if there is a surprise round is easy.
If the enemies are unaware of the rogues a surprise round occurs, with the rogues getting to act. Whenever some combatants are unaware of some other combatants there is a surprise round. In your example the enemies Perception check was enough to know the dwarf is there which triggers combat, but not high enough to know the rogues are there thus the rogues get a surprise round.So, in this instance, the dwarf would be excluded from the surprise round? Even though he's aware of the enemies that were ambushed?
Correct because the enemies are aware of him. Think about it this way, the enemies hear a single person coming down the hall and are ready to fight one person. They are surprised when the rogues appear suddenly because they were not aware of them. The dwarf does not get to act because he triggered the enemies awareness and moves directly into combat time.
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Correct because the enemies are aware of him. Think about it this way, the enemies hear a single person coming down the hall and are ready to fight one person. They are surprised when the rogues appear suddenly because they were not aware of them. The dwarf does not get to act because he triggered the enemies awareness and moves directly into combat time.If the enemies are unaware of the rogues a surprise round occurs, with the rogues getting to act. Whenever some combatants are unaware of some other combatants there is a surprise round. In your example the enemies Perception check was enough to know the dwarf is there which triggers combat, but not high enough to know the rogues are there thus the rogues get a surprise round.So, in this instance, the dwarf would be excluded from the surprise round? Even though he's aware of the enemies that were ambushed?
I would disagree with that. If all the enemies are aware of the dwarf then there is no surprise round. If everyone is aware of battle (not of specific creatures but that enemies are about) then initiative begins with no surprise round. The rouges are still hidden though and can act accordingly.
If the Rogues want a surprise round they need to leave then dwarf behind and sneak up on the enemies. Hopefully the dwarf will arrive before combat is over.
Correct because the enemies are aware of him. Think about it this way, the enemies hear a single person coming down the hall and are ready to fight one person. They are surprised when the rogues appear suddenly because they were not aware of them. The dwarf does not get to act because he triggered the enemies awareness and moves directly into combat time.If the enemies are unaware of the rogues a surprise round occurs, with the rogues getting to act. Whenever some combatants are unaware of some other combatants there is a surprise round. In your example the enemies Perception check was enough to know the dwarf is there which triggers combat, but not high enough to know the rogues are there thus the rogues get a surprise round.So, in this instance, the dwarf would be excluded from the surprise round? Even though he's aware of the enemies that were ambushed?I would disagree with that. If all the enemies are aware of the dwarf then there is no surprise round. If everyone is aware of battle (not of specific creatures but that enemies are about) then initiative begins with no surprise round. The rouges are still hidden though and can act accordingly.
If the Rogues want a surprise round they need to leave then dwarf behind and sneak up on the enemies. Hopefully the dwarf will arrive before combat is over.
The Surprise Round: If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.
At the start of the combat some but not all of the combatants (meaning everyone involved in the combat on both sides) are aware of their opponents (plural meaning all of them). The enemies in this scenario are not aware of the Rogues, but the Rogues are aware of them and thus a surprise round occurs.
In my experience surprise rounds are not that big of a deal especially if you then don't win initiative as it can put you in a bad situation. Sometimes it has actively worked against the players when they forget that just because they went in the surprise round doesn't mean they go before the enemies in normal initiative.
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@BiggDawg
While I disagree I can see that interpretation making sense. But if you apply it fully then the dwarf gets a to act in the surprise round too because he was aware of all the enemies as well.
@RhesusPieces
I am surprised you are worrying about the sniper, usually they are much weaker than the melee rogues because they can't stealth in normal or bright light (not even try) and also:
"If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location."
so to snipe you have to have already stealthed successfully, have to have something to hide behind (obscured location) and take a minus 20 to stealth vs the opponents brand new perception check. All the melee rouge needs is a flanking buddy (like the dwarf).
Edit: SOrry, I meant that they can't stealth in bright or normal light without cover. Also can't stealth past creatures with darkvision within thier sight rage without cover or concealment. It auto fails.