| Mucronis |
Aura strong necromancy [evil]; CL 13th
Slot armor; Price 52,260 gp; Weight 50 lbs.
Description
This plate armor is fashioned to make the wearer appear to be a demon. The helmet is shaped to look like a horned demon head, and its wearer looks out of the open, tooth-filled mouth. This +4 full plate allows the wearer to make claw attacks that deal 1d10 points of damage, strike as +1 weapons, and afflict the target as if she had been struck by a contagion spell (Fortitude DC 14 negates). Use of contagion requires a normal melee attack with the claws. The “claws” are built into the armor's vambraces and gauntlets, and cannot be disarmed.
A suit of demon armor is infused with evil, and as a result it bestows one negative level on any nonevil creature wearing it. This negative level persists as long as the armor is worn and disappears when the armor is removed. The negative level cannot be overcome in any way (including restoration spells) while the armor is worn.
Construction
Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, contagion; Cost 26,955 gp
Just to make sure, the claw attacks from a Demon Armor are counted as normal weapon, not a natural attack?
As the armor states that you get to make Claw attacks (sounds like natural attacks there) that counts as +1 weapons (normal weapons there) that can NOT be disarmed (again normal weapons) yet the use of contagion requires normal melee attack, I'm not a 100% sure what to label those attacks as.
Normal weapons would make it follow BAB (and could then maybe be used with two weapon fighting, not sure about that tbh) If used as Natural attack/s it would be 2 claws ? on a full attack (assuming both arms and hands are free to do so)
On a side note, is it possible (way to OP / broken) to "enchant" the Armor more to give a Weapon bonus on said Claw attacks? Like a higher enchantment bonus, weapon special abilities like unholy and such. (disregarding the fact that most named armors and weapons are considered as is, not to be enchanted more)
Winterwalker
|
It's a weapon strike. The wearer wasn't born wearing the armor, so it can't be a natural attack. :) It would follow all rules for attacking with a weapon, and should be usable as an offhand attack using a 1hand weapon and a free hand etc.
I recall some examples of adding effects to existing rings so it's totally doable if you follow the rules and pay the prices.
Coming up with the cost however might involve your GM, but as is, the claws are +1, and have a contagion effect on each strike. A level 3 spell effect on each strike 'could' be valued pretty differently by DMs, so that would be the only grey area.
But lets make up a market price of +3 for it just for math, making the claws a +4 market price, you could still add a total of +6 market price worth of effects, such as higher enchantment or special abilities as long as no one side is more than a +5 market value.
You'd need to keep track of the fact that armor 'weapons' (like these claws, and good old armor spikes) are a separate cost from the armors overall cost and value. +4 armor, doesn't equal adding spikes and getting +4 spikes.
If that seems confusing, you could get a good ballpark on cost for enchanting those spikes by removing what the cost would be for +4 armor, then another ...one sec I'll do the actual math and update this...
...processing.
| CaptnB |
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet).
So your claw attacks are indeed natural weapons, which in turn are treated as any other melee attacks. It's pretty much the same thing as simple, martial and exotic melee weapons. It's just another category.
The part that says they are treated as +1 weapon is only there to tell you that you have a +1 attack, +1 damage bonus on them. It also means you can bypass DR x/magic with them.
The last part about the claws that can't be disarmed is probably to counter the argument that you get them from the armor. Someone could argue that they are weapon-like armor extensions and you can disarm them.
As for your last question, the price of the armor suggests it is in the +7 range (+7 armor = 49000 GP, Mwk Full Plate = 1650 GP). That means you still have room for +3 enhancements. Just follow the magic item creation rules.
Winterwalker
|
52,260gp total
what your getting with that price is:
Demon Armor
- +4 Plate Mail
- +1, Contagion Claws
If you strip back the layers, +4 armor would cost 16,000gp plus the costs of the MW armor, totaling 1,650 . So removing that off the top is easy.
MasterWork Cost, +4 Market Price Cost:
+4 52,260gp - 16,000gp -1,650gp = 34,610gp
So what you are left with is: 17,650gp
We know it's got to be MW quality to be magical +300gp
We know it's a +1 weapon, so that's worth 2,000gp
So now we are left with:
15,350gp
We don't really know what the base weapon cost is, but if you look at what a +3 market price weapon is worth 18k, and this is close enough to that indeed at 17,650gp So I would consider it a +2 market price on the Contagion effect.
With the above math I'd say you could easily add (up to) another +4 bonus on the enchantment, to the max of a +5, or add up to +3 more abilities, including Unholy if you wish. It wouldn't be OP, to do that, but it would be costly.
Adding just Unholy now would make it akin to a +5 weapon, which would bump it's worth to 50,000gp, and require you to spend 16,000gp craft cost to do.
Totally doable though!
Winterwalker
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Quote:Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet).So your claw attacks are indeed natural weapons, which in turn are treated as any other melee attacks. It's pretty much the same thing as simple, martial and exotic melee weapons. It's just another category.
The part that says they are treated as +1 weapon is only there to tell you that you have a +1 attack, +1 damage bonus on them. It also means you can bypass DR x/magic with them.
The last part about the claws that can't be disarmed is probably to counter the argument that you get them from the armor. Someone could argue that they are weapon-like armor extensions and you can disarm them.
As for your last question, the price of the armor suggests it is in the +7 range (+7 armor = 49000 GP, Mwk Full Plate = 1650 GP). That means you still have room for +3 enhancements. Just follow the magic item creation rules.
The armor does not give them 'natural attacks.' Just because the armor 'has' claws, does not mean the user 'grew' claws. It does not state anywhere in it's description to that case, and you may have added your on spin on that.
You can, and should, follow the rules for item creation, but you would not be correct in saying it's considered +7 market price total, there's 2 parts, the claws[weapon], and the armor.
Just like the examples of armor and armor spikes, and how to handle enchanting them, treat them as two different things. Each should be able to be enchanted up to a max of +10.
Does that mean he could have armor that's essentially worth 300,000gp?
Yes.
Is it an exact science?
No.
Should a DM be involved?
Yes.
Winterwalker
|
Interesting RAI question-
What If a pc with claws wore the armor?
no RAI needed, RAW states:
'Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.'